I, for one, can't wait till this is avail. for the electronic hobbiest:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2354848,00.asp
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2354848,00.asp
Xerox anouncement...
- Thread starter vttom
- Start date
Andres Rodriguez
New Member
I am a Xerox retiree and live 2 miles from the lab. Obviously it is not a corporate secret, I'll make some phone calls.
The popular toner transfer method currently used by many of us was developed here and patented in 1953. Off course the patent has expired and after 25 years it became public domain.
The popular toner transfer method currently used by many of us was developed here and patented in 1953. Off course the patent has expired and after 25 years it became public domain.
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demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
i didn't think this was anything new since there has been various companies dealing with things like printed aerials and such,
when we can literally print a basic transistor i'll be in la la land, think of the possibilities with that, printable memmory anyone?
imaging a pile of paper as a crude microcontroller
when we can literally print a basic transistor i'll be in la la land, think of the possibilities with that, printable memmory anyone?
imaging a pile of paper as a crude microcontroller
slimplynth
Senior Member
Imagine the 'popup book' possibilities
Andrew Cowan
Senior Member
Can someone email me the PDF to print a PICAXE 28X5 please?
Thanks!
Thanks!
BeanieBots
Moderator
I don't think that one is in the public domain just yet
lanternfish
Senior Member
Just what we need a second wife
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
i'd like to see it progress to somthing more of a dumb super thin polycarbonate micro OLED panel with limited touch screen capabilities and a simple spi or serial interface, or wirelessly connected to your adsl connection and the daily news paper would be downloaded each day or as things happen,
even better would be interctive touch sensitive wall paper .....
even better would be interctive touch sensitive wall paper .....
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
aparently with some of the current ink you can "bake" them in the oven, so it's just a case of modifying a printer to take pcbs instead of paper
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
i think they will probably favour a thin polycarbonate or somthing similar
although ...
teacher: "now johnny, why didn't you do your homework this time?"
johnny: "well miss, i did do it, but it.. it ... kinda burst into flames..."
teacher: "what do you mean kinda burst into flames"
johnny: "well miss,i left it on the table where i did it last night and my dog tried to eat it"
teacher: "oh dear is your dog alright?"
johnny: "yeah , he just got a little hot under the collar"
Well you can buy inkjet printers that print direct to cd so you could atleast do something 120x120.
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
i've looked at trying that before but i don't have the money for one of those printers, and the only person i know who has one won't let me use try it
for the time being i'm quite content with the photoresist method and plain paper i'm getting traces a small as 0.2mm with incredible reliability
DemPicGuy: Can you please share, how do you expose your positive ? What UV source (type,power etc.) ? How long do you expose for ?
I use transparencies with GE 125W UV bulb (similar to Hg-vapour) and I get reasonably good results with 5-6mins exposure. I would like to try the plain paper way as I think the final PCB could maybe be a bit "cleaner" AND off-course is cheaper too.....
I use transparencies with GE 125W UV bulb (similar to Hg-vapour) and I get reasonably good results with 5-6mins exposure. I would like to try the plain paper way as I think the final PCB could maybe be a bit "cleaner" AND off-course is cheaper too.....
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
essentially what i do is print a mirrored version of the circuit and place it inkside down against the photoresist layer and sandwich that between somthing transparent like a sheet of perspex or glass depending on size,
exposing i used to use the fish tank light but my father in law has changed the setup so now i just use a desklamp with an energy saver in it (11w) for 10 to 20 mins depending on the photo resist
after that is use draino at room temperature 1Xtsp /litre maybe 2Xtsp in winter, i find i get very good results i swish it around it vigouresly and don't let the pcb get near the bottom where the highly concenrated draino crystals will still be disolving, after about 5ish mins of that you should see a very very well defined pattern depending on how flat to the pcb your paper was
after that etch in whatever way you like, i use ferric chloride in an icecream container outside on the grass and wallha! a pcb,
one of the key things to it though especially if doing traces smaller than 0.5mm is to make sure your paper and pcb is very flat otherwise you can get the finer traces eroded into a little bit
i think i might have to put this up on a webpage as i seem to get a few people very interested in it
We've got a microboards CD printer and a couple of years back we milled a circle of FR4 and tried exactly that. It went through and printed ok as expected, but inkjet printing via that method is just not dark or consistant enough - the inkdots do not merge like they do on an absorboant material like paper so there were lots of tiny streaks and gaps which makes it a pretty useless method for PCBs!
Photo boards are waaaaaaay to exspensive down here, like $13.00 for 100x150mm. I fix photocopiers so other than a endless supply of LCD's, stepper motors and sensors I can pretty much practice to my hearts content with toner transfer. Albiet tediouse I know if the transfer worked then the etch will. Does anyone know the science behind the danger of the chemicals? I mean it says don't touch it but what is the best way to neutralize or despose of the chemicals? Read somewhere to just use soap powder!i've looked at trying that before but i don't have the money for one of those printers, and the only person i know who has one won't let me use try it
for the time being i'm quite content with the photoresist method and plain paper i'm getting traces a small as 0.2mm with incredible reliability
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
aparently you can neutralize ferric chloride with sodium hydroxide (aka draino ) dilute it and send it on it's merry way down the drain,which probably couldn't be a better solution since you use the sodium hydroxide to strip off the photostrip off the pcb anyway
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
i'm not entirely sure, the only reason i do what i do with ferric chloride is because that what i was advised i could do by my local council as well as dispose of it free of charge,
as with any chemical i recommend reading the MSDS
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Ammonium_persulfate-9922930
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Ferric_Chloride_TS-9925886
acording to both msds's
"Waste Disposal:
Waste must be disposed of in accordance with federal, state and local environmental
control regulations."most of the local councils across Australia will have somwhere you can drop off your waste and hazardous chemicals for free of charge (some will even come to you and take it away)
i would imagine it would be a similar case across most countries
DemonPic: The only difference between our methods seem to be, you use plain paper and I use tranparencies. You use Ferric-Chloride while I use 25% H-Peroxide + 75% of HCl (pool acid). Nasty stuff but it etches VERY clean and QUICK. Traces down to 0.4mm, IF and only IF, exposure is OK and development = OK... Developer I use 1%(weight) in summer, 2% in winter, solutions for about 2mins total with rinsing in between to check the development does not go "too far". It is a visual "feeling" thing when you think the development is OK, I look at the exposed copper, if nice and shiny copper colour, no resist colour left, it is ready. Development is NB NB NB or else your etchant battles and that is when I find that thin traces are eroded. I've done one board on Friday, will post a pic.