WA's OBE + PICAXE success story

ylp88

Senior Member
Well, I must say that is has been a long time since I've been here. The last thing that I remember was Stan changing user names which I feel was quite a while ago.

Anyhow, as some of you may (or may not) be aware, Western Australia is getting into the full swing of Outcomes Based Education (OBE). During my absence I've been quite busy helping my ex-electronics and robotics teacher develop the course for the OBE Course of Engineering of which includes Computers and Electronics.

Since I was in Year 10, I’ve been trying to get my teacher into PICAXE but without proper funding, time or incentive to do so, nothing happened. Since Year 12 till now, I’ve managed to convince my teacher that PICAXE is the way to go, especially since he had the ability to get into so PIC stuff though Design and Technology professional development. Since then, I must say that my teacher has been quite impressed with what PICAXE has to offer. We have already setup quite a few breadboarding kits akin to Stan's PICNIC kit and the students have had a brief opportunity to get involved in some breadboarding. I've also designed a PCB which will be used as the equivalent of the Rev-Ed "Experimenter's board" - it is a bit bigger for less able fingers and a bit more spaced out for clarity and ease of identifying the sub-systems.

The primary use of the PICAXE line was to migrate from the use of the PIC16F84 and PIC16F628 line of PIC chips which were programmed using Logicator and used in a buggy. The most identifiable advantage is that students can easily take the project home and reprogram the project at home without the expense of proprietary hardware or expensive programmers and BASIC compilers and flowcharting facilities.

Development of the buggy has been rather interesting and has been a good example of some of the requirements for material selection and design outcome demonstration. We have produced over five (5) different boards with the latest being roughly 50% the PCB area of the original! It is often hard to encourage students to realise that simple CAD packages though to full auto-routing softwares do not necessarily provide the most ideal solution to schematic-PCB design, but in my opinion, such an evolution in design provides such motivation.

The introduction of the course has also provided the department with funds to get in hardware not available in may schools in Western Australia, possibly even in Australia. Students now have the opportunity to draw wheels and baseplates for their buggy in 3D in a CAD package and using a CNC milling machine to mill their designs into Perspex. Keep in mind that it is professional finished such as milled parts which provide students with the incentive to put that extra little bit of effort into their work.

Basically, I think that PICAXE has provided the school with the ability to do things which were not available to me when I was there just a couple of years back. It is also personally satisfying to give back something to the school. I hope that the hard work that my teacher and I have done over the last few months will provide students with new opportunities and insights into what electronics has to offer, aside from the arguably simple and unsatisfying Dick Smith Funway kits!

Untimately, despite the flood of controversy surrounding the introduction of OBE into WA,
<b>PICAXE + OBE = SUCCESS! </b>

I&#8217;d just like to thank everyone who has helped me in the past and be rest assured that your knowledge has not only helped me personally will also help those students who will study this course next year and into the future.

<b><i>ylp88 </b> </i>

PS. Sorry for the long post. Probably bored most readers, but I feel that there was a lot to report given my absence.

Edited by - ylp88 on 05/12/2006 13:50:53
 

BeanieBots

Moderator
Glad to see you back and glad to hear of your success. Always nice to know when things work out. Really pleased to see PICAXE/Electronics making more in-roads into the education sector. Shame the UK can't do more to encourage the subject.
Well done.
Maybe a nice little web page a bit later on to show off all those buggies?
 

ylp88

Senior Member
Yeah. I'll try and get some pictures. All the stuff is at the school but I'm sure I can get something.

<b><i>ylp88 </b> </i>
 

D n T

Senior Member
I am a D &amp; T teacher starting next year in WA and am going to iumplement PICAXE as part of the curriculum in design and technology. It fitts so well into the engijneering course of study its not funny.
I'm afraid that I will be starting with year 8 and 9 this year but I will end up with a full 8 - 12 course implemanted within the next 4 - 5 years.

PICAXE rools

YLP 88 can you email me and let me know which school you were at sdo I can have a chat ?

Edited by - D n T on 06/12/2006 03:53:58
 

ylp88

Senior Member
Electronics and robotics is only offered from Yr 9 though to Yr 10, with the school offering the course of study of engineering (Levels 2A and 2B) in upper school (Yr 11 and 12).

It is good to hear that you also agree that PICAXE has a lot to offer for the courseof study.

And in answer to your question, I was at Rossmoyne. If you e-mail me your e-mail address, I'll try and get you in contact with my teacher. ylp88@_______________

<b><i>ylp88 </b> </i>

EDIT: Edited out e-mail to prevent bot collection...

Edited by - ylp88 on 03/02/2007 05:28:40
 

manuka

Senior Member
Crikey- I should maybe put my hand up for at least a refreshing ale!

Glad things are moving ahead in WA. Thought however- I'd some Picaxe etc input for the state of Victoria ~early 2005 that looked like it was going to fly. Maybe check how other Oz. states hence are moving with OBE, as I believe SA in particular is quite advanced now on this. Here in NZ a year 12 &amp; 13 NCET (Nat. Cert Electrotech) option is shaping up well,suiting students looking to a sparkie career as well as tertiary study.
Stan (Send XXXX to &quot;Stan,NZ&quot;)
 

rolsen

Member
Thanks for the detailed post ylp88. A great encouragement to all in oz discovering picaxes potential. Well done, for a minute there I thought revolution had arranged that other &quot;OBE&quot;. Still, could happen.
Cheers
 

D n T

Senior Member
Stan I narrowly missed you when you were at murdoch uni a couple of years ago, next time you are over here we might need to par take of a chilled ale or such, unless you like those warm ones they have on the other side of the world, I'm buying.
 

adub

New Member
BTW, I know of a college course being offered at California State College at Long Beach that is using the picaxe chips.

It's being offered in the school of art.
<A href='http://www.art.csulb.edu/StudioTalk/features/evans-wires_are_scary.html' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a>

The article never mentions the picaxe so it's OT but the projects pictured all used the picaxe.

My son is the instructor. Proud papa!
Arvin
 

manuka

Senior Member
I'm continually being lobbied by some FA workmates after much the same ideas, so it may be worth following this up. Is he the Brian in the article? Put me in touch ! Stan
 

ylp88

Senior Member
Apologies for the sloe progress to get you some results but I have a picture which pretty much summarises what we have done.

<A href='http://wei-lee.customer.netspace.net.au/1124.jpg' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a>

The buggy is (obviously) PICAXE powered and the perspex plates are milled out using CAD/CAM. Designs for wheels are devised by students and evaluated and the final design is drawn in CAD and machined on a Roland 3D-plotter/mill.

We are in the process of designing a motor mount to suit the buggy which will replace the motors seen in the picture. The current motors and gearings are quite expensive and a simple mount for a motor (which is internally geared down) would prove to be much more economical.

<b><i>ylp88 </b> </i>
 

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
Wow ... you're making me feel really old. In my day, the closest we had to anything moving was a cotton reel powered by a matchstick and an elastic band - Apparently that's now a 'simple Mars rover' ...

http://www.theguardians.com/space/orbitalmech/gm_emdes.htm

It's a real shame that schools and colleges ( in the UK anyway ) don't generally have an 'open door' policy or provide access to their facilities which us 'old ones' would really appreciate. I dread to think how much enthusiasm and advancement is lost because people don't have access to the tools and facilities they could use, and hands-on help when needed.
 

manuka

Senior Member
Hippy - at least you <b>had </b> cotton reels ! While on my 2006 global travels I've been in diverse schools where their technology suite apparently consists of a few tired AA cells &amp; a rusty pocket knife. You'd better not get me started on this theme, or I'll blow an educational fuse!

It's not a recent woe however, since when first teaching I well recall a principal commenting <i><b>&quot;Oh our boys don't need to know about screwdrivers &amp; that sort of thing,as they'll be going into banking &amp; law, &amp; will just get a man in for odd jobs&quot;. </i> </b> Yeah right! This was back in 1972-73 (Sussex-UK)at a (private)&quot;crammer' high school, &amp; I lamented half the boys were barely able to tie their own shoelaces or recall times tables. What they REALLY wanted was relevant<b> hands on </b> rather than force fed Latin or literature etc,&amp; a mini DIY workshop I subsequently rustled up was highly effective. This was MUCH to the principal's displeasure, as he resented the &quot;trades&quot; implications. I am not making this up!

With male teachers now thin on the ground in western primary schools, role model emphasis on youngsters experiencing &quot;real men&quot; hands on learning is increasingly elusive of course.It's also perhaps associated with boys lagging academic performance in today's &quot;girls can do anything&quot; era. Budding engineers may increasingly never be enthused enough as youngsters to have the vision for a technical career...

This &quot;cognitive culture&quot; fashion may be self correcting however, since plumbers, sparkies &amp; handymen have chargeout rates that rival dentists &amp; lawyers. THESE hands on guys are increasingly the new elite as many of us are finding to our cost!

Hi tech/electronics gurus,appalled with the throwaway e-junk age,product lifetimes in months &amp; decreasing incomes, are often gobsmacked when someone &quot;unskilled&quot; bills them &#163;&#163;(&#163;)/$$($) just to replace a timeless tap washer, renew a stove element or fasten a few screws in their postbox. Stan



Edited by - manuka on 25/12/2006 19:54:29
 

adub

New Member
Manuka....I was reading this tonight and see that you had asked to be put in touch with Brian who is the instructor mentioned in the article. Sorry, for the delay. It's: &quot;Brian Evans&quot; bwevans at gmail dot com
Hope he doesn't get covered with spam. Hate the stuff. Canned or electronic!

a
 

ylp88

Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>It's a real shame that schools and colleges ( in the UK anyway ) don't generally have an 'open door' policy or provide access to their facilities which us 'old ones' would really appreciate. <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>

That is one of the &quot;perks&quot; for me. I don't get paid to do this work at the school but I get to use some of the facilities which I would ne be able to use otherwise. Of particular advantage is the ability to do UV PCB transfers in a proper UV box and milling using the 3D-plotter.

On the oher hand, several D&amp;T PDDs were arranged last year in an effort to expose other WA D&amp;T teachers to the opportunities and technologies that were potentially available to the classroom.

<b><i>ylp88 </b> </i>
 

D n T

Senior Member
I tried to run a PICAXE PD for D&amp;T teachers but was cut short by a member of a proffessional assosiation collegue of mine, however I will be teaching it to both students and teachers. I have recently introduced the head of a D&amp;T department to PICAXE 8 and he was blown away when he got his first LED to flash and buzzer to buzz, now he is hanging for more so Im teaching him and writing a teaching program for my students at the same time. I can't wait for next year to start.
Merry Christmas
 

bwevans

Member
Looks like Ive been outed. Yes, I use the 08m (mostly) as the basis for a university upper division electronics related studio art course here in California with reasonably good success. In the LA area there is a huge community of artists and hobbyists building weird things out of electronics and I felt our Art Dept needed a course to match. We dont have funding at all nor do we have much gear but the nice thing is that the picaxe makes it possible.

I think the hardest aspect to it was getting older artist types with no electronics or engineering background into the fold with the least amount of pain possible. In honesty Ive almost lost my faith in the picaxe numerous times (unexplainable and random glitches, weak US distribution, and the necessities of the breadboard) but the price/performance/ease-of-use thing keeps me loyal. Im working on a small pcb/kit similar to the Arduino geared for the 08m that I hope will make it easier for the students to get in there and start programming right away.

One of my major hurdles is finding a concise text for this purpose because it doesnt exist. Ive used the O'Sullivan, Igoe book &quot;Physical Computing&quot; but it is geared a little more to design and other uC's. The PICAXE manual is good but has many limitations, the Lincoln text has almost too much information and doesnt have real world applications.

Overall though the picaxe has allowed my students to do things they wouldnt have imagined: a small box that takes your photo when you open it, stainless steel alien spiders that chirp at each other, a keyboard played by a wooden contraption controlled by sensing the movement of a leaf outside, a video projection on a bridge controlled by the bridge's vibrations, and even a robotic bucket that drags itself around the floor peaing (dropping peas on the floor). Its been pretty exciting.

Sorry to take it OT but thought I should chime in in support of the varied uses of the PICAXE in education. Send me an email if you want to know more. Have a good xmas all.

Brian
bwevans at gmail dot com
 

BrendanP

Senior Member
unexplainable and random glitches, weak US distribution, and the necessities of the breadboard.

If you have 'unexplainable and random glitches' heres the place to get them sorted out. Post the code or a description of the ciruit. I'll be very surprised if the fault is with the picaxe system and not with the circuit desing or the code.

'weak US distribution' order the IC's direct from the UK or here in Australia. Takes about 10 days. Anything else Mouser will have.

'necessities of the breadboard', what? a couple of resistors? or the bread boards itself? I dont see how it could be much simpler.

The bread board itself is, to the best of my knpowledge, the only physical method of being able to rapidly assemble and test a circuit.

Stick with it. And once again if you've got problems, ask questions here and youll get answers.




 
 

manuka

Senior Member
Brendan- well said! However make that 10 days delivery more like just the 4-5 that I typically experience UK-NZ.
 

bwevans

Member
At the risk of going even further OT let me explain a little further. Admittedly I cant say 100% the 'random glitches' had anything to do the picaxe. Trust me, get 15 university art students hacking on uC's and it gets chaotic quick. For example, I have had PWM issues that were solved by replacing a 7805 on one (even though the chip worked great otherwise)and others that were solved by changing the code despite the same code working on other 08ms. Now In the future I need to instill a better research ethic in my students (I stress though these are ART students!) and have them seek out their own answers. So you guys might get a flood of n00bs next time I run this course. ;-)

The distribution issue is primarily concerned with 'recruitment'. The Arduino is widely popular in southern california especially with the artist types. Its $30, has an excellent website, is open source, and is easily bought through sparkfun. When I go to talks or meetings and mention the 'picaxe' I get a big &quot;what?&quot; in response. Sure, rev-ed's site is decent but ordering from the UK puts people off a bit (the US$ is weak). I dont know for sure but there is something lacking that sites like arduino.cc, sparkfun.com, or parallax.com have. Im trying to build support for the picaxe... one student at a time. Id also like to do some talks or workshops out here in the area to garner support for the platform but thats still in progress.

Breadboard... How many times have we seen this:
http://www.csulb.edu/~bevans2/wirenest.jpg
This becomes a problem for students or well at least art students. &quot;Wires are scary.&quot; The breadboard is going to be necessary but I would like to see this minimized as much as possible. In this context Im more interested in the student doing things with the technology rather than them having nothing but technology. Does that make sense? Its more about the end results. Besides Im convinced some of the 'random glitches' we had this semester had to do with the breadboard. I have little other explanation. Anyway, there is also the student who invariably wants 5 nests of LEDs all running individual PWM routines with individual inputs and wants it crammed into a wooden vessel the size of your coffee mug. Breadboards dont work for this.

Ok another long post. Sorry. I leave with another of my students works:
http://www.csulb.edu/~bevans2/wheel.jpg
Yes it is indeed a wheel that walks. Sorta. All aluminum, carbon fiber, and digital servos. By the end of the term it would balance on 2 legs and fall forward. It will eventually roll. He wants each leg to have its own individual uC. Cool.

Brian

 

manuka

Senior Member
Brian- good to hear your speil, &amp; given the arts culture I'm highly impressed with evntual outcomes. But -splutter-<A href='http://www.csulb.edu/~bevans2/wirenest.jpg ' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a> breaks every rule in my breadboard book! Suggest you first guide students to shorten wires, use suitable colour coding, neatly label &amp; avoid burying ICs etc.

Others will confirm that I'm an apparent BB fanatic, but the likes of <A href='http:// www.picaxe.orcon.net.nz/picnksm.jpg ' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a> &amp; <A href='http:// www.picaxe.orcon.net.nz/bread08.jpg ' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a> or <A href='http://www.picaxe.orcon.net.nz/433rpt.jpg ' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a> take no longer to assemble &amp; are a breeze to fault find &amp; tweak. Stan
 

premelec

Senior Member
Though I have not been formally engaged in teaching I have seen many projects and advised and done my own and I say whatever works for the student [I'm 70 years old and still a student...] to the point that something works and gets up passion for trying more is good... Rats nest, dead bug, multilayer rats nest, hand built PCB, commercial PCB, have all worked for me at times and I have had very little pleasant experience with solderless bread boards and like the smell and danger of hot flux &amp; lead... :) Often times trying to do something in a messy fashion simply gets us to realize that some modicum of order is needed to realize our dreams... When I built my first transmitter [ham]in my teens everyone laughed 'cuz I made it look just like the magazine article I'd read and my friends had not seen anyone do that before...

So ... whatever works for the student is fine!
 

manuka

Senior Member
Sorry, but I beg to differ on this,&amp; naturally point out students today hopefully are workers tomorrow.

Especially if they end up in a technical field,it's crucial that others can lucidly follow their handiwork. In the military,the king pin specialist may be suddenly removed from the scene,often leaving others to urgently fault find &amp; improvise. Building services are comparable of course -YOU may know that THAT pipe is actually waste water,or that the GREEN wire is NOT YET EARTHED, but will the next guy ?

Sure - the initial BB lash up can often only be comprehended by the assembler,but I despair of final layouts that remain a rats nest. See the infamous =&gt;<A href='http://www.picaxe.orcon.net.nz/ratsnest.jpg' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a>
 

Dippy

Moderator
I'll go along with Stan on the need for neatness and clarity, but I DO see the point made by Premelec. For newbie and oldbie alike, to get SOMETHING working (or nearly working) is very satisfying.

But, once the basics are working, there should be the process of tidification (thanks George)and neatenisation. Not only is it visually clearer (and clearer for others) but it'll usually work electrically better too. In some cases it may mean the difference between not/nearly working and being 100%. (And, of course, its easier to pinpoint errors.)

Tidy breadboard, tidy mind.

My usual sequence is old fashioned pencil &amp; paper, then first breadboard test, tidy it up/ re-test, then CAD, check CAD schematic against breadboard, then PCB prototypes etc. as sometimes breadboard isn't good enough to get circuit working properly e.g. smpsu.

And tidyness/clarity goes for code writing too!!

In fact tidyness/clarity/spelling/grammar goes for others things as well. And you can't learn that from Google.

Sadly, my skill with brevity is completely lacking.

Bottom line: we'd be very stuck without breadboards. Just make sure you get a good quality one.

PS. Jeremy, you're quite right. I think a breadboard suspended in formaldehyde should impress the art world. But don't tell Damien Hurst.

Edited by - Dippy on 28/12/2006 10:11:26
 

SD2100

New Member
And when your finished with your breadboard for the day you can just ummm, EAT IT !!!.
<A href='http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/apr98/breadbrd.html' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a>
 

Rickharris

Senior Member
It is very difficult - we have tried to get interest from other teachers, free training/play time for primary and or secondary but only 2 turned up and didn't really seem to get into it although they played with the &quot;toys&quot; we had on show. I think it just seems too much like bother when you already have a lot to do.

We also have thought of opening the workshop up but security/Insurance/Making sure it will be useable tomorrow when I have 180 eager kids tramping through all all serious problems that tend to get in the way.

I addition it is hard to staff such a proposition. The teaching staff all ready have a full time committment and getting trained and suitable external staff would be difficult. I did at one time consider trying to convince a local achool (not mine it's too far away) to allow me to hire their workshop facilities but they just don't have the will or ability to cater for it.

Perhaps there is a case here for me renting time in my big double garage with it's band saw, lathe, CNC router (or at least it will have by the time I retire in 2.5 years.). Considering evening courses at the local college of further education cost some 40 to &#163;120 per term (generally 7 to 12 2 hour long sessions).

I guess you have to be looking at &#163;10 per hour considering I have to provide and maintain the machinery and teach and supervise the users.
 

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
I do sympathise with teachers and any other individuals who try and get anything off the ground, and particularly since we have become such a risk-adverse society that we are frequently scared into inaction or stopped in our tracks by those who know what's best for us all. It sometimes makes me wonder how the human race ever developed to where it is today. If we hadn't already invented fire or the wheel it's unlikely we'd be allowed to these days.

It's going to take major societal change to put this obsessive fear of risk behind us, yet 'nanny-stateism' seems to be growing daily.
 

premelec

Senior Member
With regard to tidy breadboard tidy mind-
Einstein hearing a statement that a cluttered desk indicated a cluttered mind said &quot;What, then, does an empty desk indicate?&quot;. There's a place for standards and protocol but there is the more important goal to keep a student interested enough to tolerate the imposed BS and go on to achieving many goals of his own. We have many technicians doing competent work in telecom and electrical grid distribution and such and we also need a lot of creative engineering folks... I do like this forum of so many knowledgeable and creative folks trying new and new to them stuff... have a creative new year!
 

Dippy

Moderator
E=mc2 is pretty tidy.

What does an empty desk indicate?
It indicates that you've got a new desk because your old one's full of 300 projects on breadboards which you can't understand because they look like birds-nest soup.
I'm kidding here because that was exactly how my workbench looked a few years ago.

Ah well, I know what you mean Premelec and I, too, thoroughly applaud creativity and innovation regardless of how messy it starts out. I just wish more people would have a go and excercise the cerebellum.

I remember a bloke down the pub who said his son was a computer 'whizz-kid' because he could get such high scores on the PlayStation. I pointed that if sonny was a real whizz-kid he'd be writing games and not just playing them. He called me a pompous git and hasn't spoken to me since. I should have kept quiet as it was his round.
 

Rickharris

Senior Member
OT but oddly I find that despite what the &quot;wold in general&quot; seems to think the kids today know les than you might think about the technology they use.

They have little interest beyond being able to use it (aand even not that if it takes more then 30 mins to learn how) - It seems strange they have this reputation of been able too fix everything and do &quot;amazing&quot; things with IT.

I teach use of picaxe to 13 to 18 year olds and few actually get a grip of programming beyond the basic essentials and hardly any bother to buy the bits and take it any further. (maybe it me? - Actually I get 2 or 3 every year who ask me to develop something for them so the want to use it but not bother to learn step by step)
 

Jeremy Leach

Senior Member
Perhaps it's because there's so much emphasis on the 'latest' technology, where the electronics in mobiles, mp3 players etc is so advanced and beyond the hobbyist's reach that kids just think 'why bovver' ?? It's a shame if that really is the case.
 

BrendanP

Senior Member
Brian, I was just looking at the picture in the link that Manuka had in his post of one of your students breadboarded projects. I find it worth while to mark claerly with indelible marker (black or blue and red) which side of the bread board is + and which is -. It helps a lot.

 
 

bwevans

Member
Yeah ok, I concede the breadboard issue needs to be straightened out some. In fact Stan, a copy of your breadboard image was handed out to my students as a method for wiring everything up. But then again, art students dont often play nicely with rules or even electronics. No I didnt 'enforce' certain breadboard ethics that I could have but honestly I dont like breadboards much at all. Theyre fine for a little desktop experimenting but between myself and my students it seems like a wire always breaks or comes loose at the worst possible time and Ive always found wiring breadboards to be so tedious. Awhile ago I made some mini proto boards <A href='http://www.csulb.edu/~bevans2/FinishedPCB.jpg' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a> to solve this problem but for students it should be much simpler to see immediate results. Using the breadboards it took them 2 (some more) class periods to get their vreg and basic circuit wired up and most importantly functioning correctly. Id like this simplified by several factors so stay tuned and Ill post the results when a new board comes back from China. Anyway, yes I am now thinking of ways to improve breadboard etiquette in the class and get the older more stubborn students a way to more easily digest the 'simple things' for quicker results.

Has anyone used the Arduino? Its a uC board based off the ATmega with an opensource bootloader and IDE. For $30US it shows up in the mail, you plug in a wall adapter, USB cable and an LED and within say 10 minutes you have your first program running. I think the PICAXE can and should do the same thing but for less than half the cost with a much easier to understand programming language. For someone with little to no electronics experience these instant results can be very encouraging.

I wanted to touch on something Rick Harris mentioned. I was a self trained electronics technician for a number of years. The way I learned electronics was to take something apart and see what things do what. You learn quicker when you have to do the same thing for a living. A shift happened in the repair business when DVD players came out 10 yrs ago: throw away electronics. Take apart a modern DVD, iPod, or cell phone and there is just not much in there that is either re-usable or understandable. Kids dont learn that way anymore. We used to scrounge for everything keeping piles of salvaged bits to later use in a new project. Now you can just buy everything new easier and cheaper or in fact someone has already built what you need so you can 'borrow'. At least with my students it was very much 'show me what to do to make something work but dont bother telling me why.' I find myself regularly clearing out portions of my old 'stash' because Im better off ordering what I need when I need it rather than clinging on to old junk. Just look at Radio Shack: once upon a time they were the Mecca for electronic hobbyists and now they are nothing more than a cell phone store with a few overpriced parts in the back. I think this is indicative of the new kind of students that we have to find a way of teaching.

I rant too much,
Brian
 

BrendanP

Senior Member
This is a common trend with electronic stores alround ther world. In australia we had a guy named dick smith who was a ham, he sold electronics components and ham gear and became very wealthy doing it. He was bought out by our version of sears. Dont waste your time going there now. Jaycar is going the same way. This is because it is hard to get staff with specialist knowledge and the margins probabaly arent there selling bits and pieces. Much easier to sell CD's and flat screens to a passive, bloated, consumerist society.

But as one door closes another opens, Now theres on line sellers like Rev Ed, Mouser,etc,etc. And even more helpfull, data sheets, and for free! I dont even bother going to retailers here now in general except for the most common parts. I just google the part number or just a search on what I wont to do. Whip out the master card and the bits are here a few days latter.

That seems to me be part of the whole process of design/engineering. I dont have formal trainning in electronics. My degree is in humanities. But with a strong desire it is possible to 'self teach'. Especially with resources like this forum at ones finger tips.

If students dont wont or arent passionate enough to seek out answers for themselves and spend hours building bread board circuits, reading pdfs, and posting queries then they're not cut out to be involved in electronic engineering.

You can't make it much easier for people I feel than the picaxe system does. Let 'em buy a flat screen and sit on there backsides waiting for heart disease and senility to kill them. You can lead a horse to water etc etc.

 
 

bwevans

Member
Yes well I agree with you almost entirely except that not everyone, in fact I would venture most of the people that pick up a picaxe are not interested in the field of Engineering. Or at least are only using the picaxe as a starter much like the BS2 or similar uCs. In my case its a bunch of art students that a systematic approach to anything is antithetical to life itself.

I knew a fellow artist who happened to be severely dyslexic and couldnt read a tape measure but managed to build these amazing kinetic sculptures including a 3 story tall bowling ball roller coaster. He used motors and lights in his work but the concept of electronics eluded him completely. I wonder if that block doesnt also exist in many people, including those students that desperately want to learn this stuff.

Brian
 
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