Picaxe Editor stopped running on my Windows 10 computer

H

HughM

Member
This problem has just occurred. Picaxe Editor (latest version) has been working without problems on my computer for years. Sometime between Feb 5, 2023 (the last time I used it) and Feb. 11 something has happened which stops it from completely loading and running. I have uninstalled it and re-installed it and that hasn't resolved the problem. A Google search revealed that others have experienced this with an ealier version in the past. Someone from Picaxe support advised the person(s) to hold down the Shift key when clicking on the Picaxe Editor shortcut and to report what the last successful operation was that was reported. I tried this and it tells me "loading Parent Form". After that nothing further happens except that the small splash screen remains in the middle of my monitor and I need to use Task Manager to make it go away.

Can anyone offer me advice on what might be causing this and what I should do to solve it? Thank you in advance.
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
If you find "PICAXE Editor" in the list of installed programs (Control Panel > All Control Panel Items > Programs and Features),
you can right-click it and choose "Repair".

It might help ...
 
K

kfjl

Member
If the problem is blocking you from finishing a picaxe project you could try installing Winaxepad.
 
A

ajveitch

New Member
Just had the same problem as HughM, my PIXAXE 6.1.0.0 opens but hangs up displaying the PICAXE Logo and the simulation window. The same version of the SW worked perfectly last week and just came to re-use it today and found this now happens. I am using Windows 10 OS and I have tried running the app as Admin etc. Would like any thoughts.

Ali
 
hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
I have to admit I have no idea what the problem would be but 'working one day, not the next' does suggests something has changed, but what, and why that would afflict some but not others, I am not sure.
 
A

ajveitch

New Member
I have now also tried running and updating all the items in the download instructions but still no solution. Is it still possible to download an older version of the Picaxe vers 6.0 editor to see if that still opens correctly.

Ali
 
A

ajveitch

New Member
I have also tried disabling both my Firewall and Virus Scanner (Avast) but that does not seem to resolve the problem.

Ali
 
hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
ajveitch said:
Is it still possible to download an older version of the Picaxe vers 6.0 editor to see if that still opens correctly.
Click to expand...
PE6 hasn't changed for some time so it's not a change in our software which is causing the issue. An older version, if available and if it worked, wouldn't prove the issue to be with the latest version. The latest version has been working fine for some time, and still is for myself and many others. That's not to say there isn't some kind of issue somewhere; there obviously is.
 
H

HughM

Member
PhilHornby said:
My guess would be either Anti-virus signatures (unlikely?) or Windows Update (more probable?)

Of the latter, there have been several ".NET Framework" patches of late. I would be inclined to explore this area. See https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/install/repair
Click to expand...
Thank you for the advice, Phil (amd others). I have just tried the NET repair tool but it hasn't changed anything. What version of NET was in effect when Editor 6 came out? I can try reverting to an earlier version of NET to see if that solves my problem.
 
A

ajveitch

New Member
Hi Everybody

Thanks for the feedback and thoughts again. I have both repairing and re-loading .NET Framework but to no avail. While my computer did do a Windows 10 update last night, this was after the problem had occurred. As I said in my earlier and just like HughM my picaxe editor was working fine last week and I was able to program an 18M SMD processor with no problems at all. Just for more info, I am using the PICAXE Editor on a HP Spectre I7 laptop.
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
HughM said:
What version of NET was in effect when Editor 6 came out? I can try reverting to an earlier version of NET to see if that solves my problem.
Click to expand...
I'm very hazy about .NET - I've never used it in anger.

It seems that a program will generally use the version it was built for, though there is apparently some kind of ability to use a later version. An initial google took me here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2592537/will-net-framework-4-replace-all-its-previous-versions

Since this was working until recently, you could try a "System Restore". I'm not sure what the official route to this function is - I normally just do Win+R and type "RSTRUI" in the dialogue box. (It probably lurks under Control Panel > All Control Panel Items > System > System Protection).

You'll may want to 'Choose a different restore point', rather than accepting the 'Recommended restore' - as it may be too late.

Before doing this, it's advisable to check out the state of the system as a whole, using SFC /SCANNOW (See link)

(I just had cause to go through this procedure: I installed Picaxe Editor on an old PC and then found I couldn't uninstall it :(. System Restore took in excess of 30 minutes and looked like it was stuck for most of that time. It did work eventually though :) )
 
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A

ajveitch

New Member
Hi Phil

Thanks for all the help but still no joy. Couldn't restore past the last windows update as my Avast maintenance had removed the restore point to recover hard disk space. Also tried running SFC, worked but no improvement.

Alastair
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
ajveitch said:
Couldn't restore past the last windows update as my Avast maintenance had removed the restore point to recover hard disk space.
Click to expand...
With friends like that, who needs viruses o_O


Have a look at this thread, if you haven't already.

Specifically have a look in the Picaxe Editor general settings file, for any rogue 'recent files' it might be trying to access when starting up.

You could also try out Process Monitor that I referred to in that thread, to see if the last attempted operation gives any clues.

(Process Monitor produces a deluge of information. FWIW, I normally start by right-clicking on all the processes I'm not interested in and excluding them....)
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
I did a bit of further investigation into Picaxe Editor and, if nothing else, found out why it is so slow to initialise. It fires up the C# compiler (CSC.EXE) seven times, along with CVTRES.EXE (whatever that is). Apparently, this is a perfectly normal thing for a .NET application to do!

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55335140/why-would-an-application-use-csc-exe
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32405437/what-is-cvtres-exe (described in 2015, as being from "the stone age"...)

Plenty of opportunities for things to go wrong though - and as I found out if you force errors, it does not report them to the end user!

In my case, the error was induced by creating a new folder and pointing the %TEMP% variable at it. I purposefully removed the Modify/Delete permission from it, so that it left behind all the temporary files it created (all fifty four of 'em :rolleyes: ). It did detect that the delete failures were occurring, but wrote the error message into the file being deleted o_O(n)

A simple thing to try...

Does it run correctly if "Run as Administrator" is selected ?
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
HughM said:
I can try reverting to an earlier version of NET to see if that solves my problem.
Click to expand...
Right - I know a bit more about this now :)

Picaxe Editor was built to use .NET V2.0.x.y which is actually implemented on Windows 10 by Microsoft .NET 3.5. We can make it use a different version - at least as a test of whether or not this is .NET problem at all.

If you disable / uninstall .NET 3.5, by going to the "Turn Windows features on or off" and clearing the option

25665

You will get the following message, when trying to run Picaxe Editor (and probably some other software!)

25666

which invites you to re-install the version it was built to run with.

However, we can force it to use the latest and greatest by creating the file:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Revolution Education\PICAXE Editor\PicaxeEditor.exe.config (assuming the default installation location).

Cut and paste the following, into the file (not the "XML:" bit!) :-
XML: 
<?xml version ="1.0"?>
<configuration>
  <startup>
    <supportedRuntime version="v4.0" sku=".NETFramework,Version=v4.8.1"/>
  </startup>
</configuration>
Now, when you run Picaxe Editor, you will get the following message :-

25668

You can install this version, do the reboot etc and Picaxe Editor should spring into life using .NET 4.8.1 (or not, as the case may be!)

I've not tested how well it runs ... (and all the Picaxe Wizards would need the same treatment because they're separate .exes).

Interestingly, there is a registry key which shows which version of .NET is installed. Mine initially said I had version 4.8.04084 and after installing "4.8.1", it said I now had 4.8.09037 which is super useful :LOL:

Fallback is to delete the .config file and follow the prompt to re-install .NET 3.5.

Another snippet:

In the directory tree: C:\Users\xxx\AppData\Local\Microsoft, there are folders which start with "CLR_". These will be suffixed with a version number (v2.0, v4.0 etc) and probably duplicated with folders ending in "_32" (I think that means 32 bit app). Each folder contains a sub-folder called "UsageLogs" and contains a logfile from the program that created it. It might give some clues, as to which programs on the system are using which version of .NET
 
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H

HughM

Member
Hi Phil,

Thank you for all of your suggestions. I've tried them as best as my aged brain understands how to and I have had no success. Editor 6 still stalls at the same point after "loading Parent Form". My solution is that I have uninstalled Editor6 and installed the earlier "out of date" Ver 5.5.5 which does work. As a point of interest, I notice that Ver 5 installs a config file in the program root directory but I saw no sign of a config file in the Editor 6 version. Sometime when I have a bit more time and patience I may revisit your suggestions and see if I can beat the problem into submission.

Cheers

Hugh
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
HughM said:
Editor 6 still stalls at the same point after "loading Parent Form".
Click to expand...
Assuming that is with .NET Framework 3.5 definitely disabled, we can, I think, eliminate .NET as being the culprit. (I would have put money on it being related to the recent KB502279 update :unsure:).
As a point of interest, I notice that Ver 5 installs a config file in the program root directory but I saw no sign of a config file in the Editor 6 version.
Click to expand...
The settings for Picaxe Editor itself, are contained in three .XML files in the

c:\Users\xxx\AppData\Roaming\Revolution Education\PICAXE Editor\Settings\ folder (where "xxx" is the username).

The main file is PICAXE_Editor_General_Settings.xml - where there are lists of "Recent files". Picaxe Editor accesses (or attempts to access) every one of the files in the list at startup time (for no immediately obvious reason). I think there is scope there, for it getting 'stuck' trying to access a non-existent location...
 
H

HughM

Member
I don't think it is a Net Framework issue since it was asking for 3.5 when 3.5 was disabled. But we may be on the right path with your latest post, Phil. I have just done a fresh install of Editor 6 without actually trying the program and there are no xml files at the location you give. I then tried starting the program and it stalls as before. I wonder if the xml files are not installing properly or are they created as the program operates?
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
HughM said:
I don't think it is a Net Framework issue since it was asking for 3.5 when 3.5 was disabled.
Click to expand...
If it was asking for 3.5, rather than "v4.8.1", then not all the steps have been completed.

It has been prevented from using .NET 3.5, but it hasn't actually run under v4.8.1. I've edited my original post (#17) - the steps below the line in green need to be executed, to see how it behaves with the newer .NET Framework.

(The other point re: the missing .XML files - I'm guessing they're created when Picaxe Editor successfully runs. The fact that it still hangs when they're not present, probably means that my theory (about their contents) is wrong)
 
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PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
Incidentally, I just tried Picaxe Editor with .NET Framework on an older laptop - it was noticeably slower to load using .NET 4.8.1, than .NET 3.5 (25 secs vs 15 secs). (There was no discernible difference on my 'monster' desktop - both were about 5 secs).

In other words, it may appear to hang anyway under .NET 4.8.1, so give it a while to complete the test.
 
H

HughM

Member
Hi Phil, I went back through your #17 post procedures and ended up with the popup asking me to instal NET 4.8 which, when I selected Yes, took me to the download site. I downloaded and installed NET 4.8 and re-booted and now nothing at all happens when I click on the Editor6 exe file. The splash screen doesn't show up and there is no indication in Task Manager that Editor exists. If I delete the config file I'm back to the program stalling after "Load Parent Form".
 
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J

Jack Burns

New Member
Have you tried running Editor6.exe file in compatibility mode for an older version of Windows?, although it shouldn’t be necessary to do this, it may help.
 
H

HughM

Member
Jack Burns said:
Have you tried running Editor6.exe file in compatibility mode for an older version of Windows?, although it shouldn’t be necessary to do this, it may help.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the suggestion but that was something I looked at after the fault occurred
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
HughM said:
The splash screen doesn't show up and there is no indication in Task Manager that Editor exists. If I delete the config file I'm back to the program stalling after "Load Parent Form".
Click to expand...
I had something similar happen - but it turned out to be a syntax error in the .config file. There were no immediately obvious error messages, but I eventually spotted it in the "Event Viewer" (Windows Logs > Application).

In your case, it has successfully read the .config, so can't be the same problem. (Still worth checking the Event Viewer, to see if there's any other clue though).

I'm starting to think "Virus Checker"...

Do you use anything other than Windows Defender? ... if so, can you disable it?
 
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P

papaof2

Senior Member
McAfee and Avast tend to be very slow when checking out a newly installed (or re-installed) program. I sometimes wonder if they send that file back to the anti-virus program's home server for a "deep check" and I'm waiting for XX MB to be moved and checked (no gigabit fiber where I am). Avast sometimes lets that program run just a bit and then pauses the program while it does its checks. On a large program, that might be a LONG time.

I would suggest starting the program and when it stalls, go get a cup of coffee and a donut and come back 10 minutes later to see if the anti-virus program has simply been painfully S-L-O-W...
 
V

vernon

New Member
I am now experiencing the same problem which appears to have happened after the recent update KB5022729 and KB5019275.
I have tried reloading the program 3 times and even reloaded Net3.5 after removing it, but still no joy. There have been discussions on the TSL level 1 possibly changing to 1.2 and the program not finding the correct path, but I am not familiar with what that means, only that Win11 uses an enhanced TSL which I wonder has happened in the latest update.
If PICAXE cannot or will not patch Rev6 there are going to be a very lot of users who will be stuck like me with programs that cannot be used.
 
K

kfjl

Member
vernon said:
If PICAXE cannot or will not patch Rev6 there are going to be a very lot of users who will be stuck like me with programs that cannot be used.
Click to expand...
No there won't, they can use winaxepad.
Linux complains that .NET 3.5 is missing.
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
vernon said:
I am now experiencing the same problem which appears to have happened after the recent update KB5022729 and KB5019275.
Click to expand...
Are you able to remove those updates or do a "System Restore" to prove it?

It's very odd that it's not affecting everyone. I've tried to reproduce the problem on five seven different PCs now - to no avail.

Sticking with the theory that it's .NET related, I've revised my instructions on how to get Picaxe Editor to use a later version of .NET Framework. I was trying to force it to use V4.8.0 (which is probably already installed), but couldn't - so opted for v4.8.1 instead. I'm not convinced v4.8.1 is a good choice (it's not recommended by Microsoft), so I revisited the v4.8.0 scenario. It turns out, that you simply have to specify v4.8, not v4.8.0 :rolleyes:

So:

Force use of v4.8.0 by creating the file:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Revolution Education\PICAXE Editor\PicaxeEditor.exe.config (assuming the default installation location).

Cut and paste the following, into the file (not the "XML:" bit!) :-
XML: 
<?xml version ="1.0"?>
<configuration>
  <startup>
    <supportedRuntime version="v4.0" sku=".NETFramework,Version=v4.8"/>
  </startup>
</configuration>
Assuming it's already installed, Picaxe Editor should just silently start to use it. You can prove it is, by removing v3.5.
 

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K

kfjl

Member
vernon said:
Why
Click to expand...
Why use something that works when you have something that doesn't?
Why does linux complain that .NET3.5 is missing? Because that's what the latest PE6 installer download is looking for on my linux system.
Why install winaxepad? So as not to be "stuck like a very lot of users with programs that cannot be used."
Why use Windows? I have no answer to that.
Why not install winaxepad anyway? Even if you get PE6 working, Microsoft will still keep doing updates that break what used to work.
 
V

vernon

New Member
Why , because I am 78 yrs old and I am not a software writer , so I have learnt to use editor over the last 5-6 years and have a number of simple programs all of which take time even on the editor. I am not a Basic person and therefore enjoy what I am able to do.
Even picaxe say that the editor is the preference over axepad for windows.
Incidently I got a very old slow Win7 laptop from the shed and resurrected yesterday and after about 20 mins loading win7 i managed to get editor working despite microsoft complaining about IE and edge, but I still want to get it working on my win10 laptop. I have tried to recover to a earlier version but I do not have a file less than 10 days old and therefore will not enact so the only way would be to reload win10 from a USB I downloaded some time ago.I will try the the fix that Phil has suggested.
 
K

kfjl

Member
My idea was that you install winaxepad alongside PE6 so you have something to fall back on while waiting for a solution.
Apparently, you already have something to fall back on with your "OLD?" win7 machine.
It's just about having options. Then you can do what Michael Miles would have said.
Or are you too young to remember him?

:)
 
J

Jack Burns

New Member
Thinking about it, I have seen similar symptoms (with different software) and the problem was traced to bad sectors on the hard drive.

I suggest you run a disk diagnostics check which includes a full surface scan, however this can take several hours if you have a large drive.

Unfortunately I'm not on a Windows 10 PC at the moment, so I can't give you exact guidance. However, looking in "Device Manager" should allow you to find the model number of your hard drive (or SSD). You can then download a disk check utility from the manufacturer of your drive.

Also worth checking the "Event Viewer" to see if any disk errors are logged.
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
Jack Burns said:
I suggest you run a disk diagnostics check which includes a full surface scan, however this can take several hours if you have a large drive.
Click to expand...
Can't hurt and on Windows 10, this needn't inconvenience the user, if the 'online scan option is used' :-
Code: 
C:\>chkdsk c: /r /scan
 
H

HughM

Member
Hello Phil and all. A new bit of information which may help solve the puzzle that I have experienced. The initial issue was that Editor 6 freezes at the point after "Loading Parent Form" with the splash screen remaining on the screen until I exorcise it by way of Task Manager. That was with PE6 running under NET 3.5. After disabling NET 3.5 and adding Phil's config file to force PE6 to work under NET 4.8 I thought that nothing was happening after I clicked on the PE6 icon to run the program. Turns out that I was wrong. Under NET 3.5 when I used Task Manager to force stop PE6, the program would show up at the top of the screen under "Apps". After forcing the use of NET 4.8 I find that PE6 shows up further down the screen under "Background Processes". Does this new information mean anything to those who are trying to determine what caused my issue and what to do to solve it? I am not computer savvy enough for it to mean anything to me or to know if it is anything significant. With respect to the discussion of possible anti-virus interference, I have not seen any difference if I try installing and running PE6 with the anti-virus disabled. Thanks to all who are trying to help me.
 
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