Purchase/Licensing/support policy

[BCJKiwi]

Would you please advise on-going policy to cover updates, new versions,etc.

Is the purchase price a one-off that will include future updates and major changes such as new versions.

Will new libraries of PICAXE chips and discrete devices be added and be free of charge on an on-going basis.

Thanks

 

[hippy]

Is the purchase price a one-off that will include future updates and major changes such as new versions.

My own opinion, which may be different to Rev-Ed who have to be more careful with how they phrase things -

For PICAXE and other chips you get what you buy. There is consumer legislation and statutory rights which cover warranty, fitness for purpose and so on but rights and remedies may depend upon which jurisdiction you are in. Also refer to the Terms and Conditions of the supplier of the components. There has never been any general policy in place to upgrade sold chips to any new, later or particular version of Firmware.

The software ( Programming Editor ), along with patches and upgrades, has been made available for download without payment to Rev-Ed, and I don't foresee that changing.

Libraries ( presumably for PCB and CAD systems ), although perhaps mainly a marketing tool or 'value added service' could be considered as a 'favour to the PICAXE community', and I've never seen any promises to keep those up to date, so it's really a case of 'what you see is what you get'.

I don't think you'll ever find anyone who will make any promise which will last until the end of time, so no one will ever say the Programming Editor will always be free, even if that's the intention.

 

[BCJKiwi]

Thanks for your input Hippy but I would like to see an official response from Rev-Ed.

The nature of that response would, I suggest, be a large factor in the number of sales to 'hobby' users. i.e how much bang are you going to get for your buck and what is the effective add-on cost per project.

I personally would buy if I knew there was a reasonable life to the investment.

The policy of different organisations varies dramatically in this area which is why it needs to be clarified.

As an example, I use and sell ESET's NOD32 software. We still run off the original license purchased many years ago with an annual 'maintenance fee' which covers all updates AND major revisions AND significantly enhanced new versions. Compare that with outfits like symantic who effectively require you to buy their new version just to maintain cover. Over the years a Symantic solution would have cost many times that of ESET's product and that is not even taking into consideration the dramatic difference in the quality and performance of the two products.

 

[hippy]

Thanks for your input Hippy but I would like to see an official response from Rev-Ed ... I personally would buy if I knew there was a reasonable life to the investment.

The PICAXE has been around for at least 5 years, maybe 6, and Rev-Ed have been in business since 1998 and probably longer, and seem to be going from strength to strength.

I am sure Rev-Ed would like to say they will be around for many more years to come, offering the same value for money services and continuing to build on the foundations they have, long into the next millennium.

Hopefully they will be, but, no matter what ones good intentions or designs, reality is not so easy to predict. Maybe Bath will be wiped away by a meteorite overnight, someone might make a buy-out offer too good to refuse. I'd be surprised if Rev-Ed were to say they did not plan to be around in a few years time, are bored of PICAXE or selling, or were collectively off to Katmandu to re-capture the essence of the 60's, but you never know.

I don't think that the PICAXE is a high risk at all for hobbyists, educationalists nor even for commercial users. In some ways a PICAXE investment has advantages over other products; at least being PICmicro-based any product can be fairly easily adapted to use a PICmicro. Of course, Microchip could go out of business first and take down Rev-Ed, although they could just as easily side-step that catastrophe.

The biggest risk I see with PICAXE is that technology is moving forward and things like DIP footprint and 5V devices are becoming rarer. In a few years time the whole product range may have changed, but I'd expect Rev-Ed to move with the times, put QFN and smaller chips on carrier boards for hobbyists and we'll just have to adapt to 3V3 or 1V6 technology as the rest of the world will. Maybe the entire hobby market will collapse because resistors only come in surface mount and are too small to see.

If Rev-Ed fold or change course and similar PICmicro's exist as today, then ( Rev-Ed should stop reading here ) it wouldn't be that hard to build a PICAXE clone and create a new Programming Editor, it's just software and more software. Someone can step in and fill the void. If I outlast Rev-Ed and still have my faculties it could be me

Sod's Law now predicts that Technical will post, "Rev-Ed will be closing permanently on Friday. Bye" ...

 

[papaof2]

"Is the purchase price a one-off that will include future updates and major changes such as new versions."

That's a bit much to ask of a $3US chip ;-)

I would compare it to asking whether a 555 chip purchased 20 years ago will be updated to a CMOS SMD chip for free...

John

 

[BeanieBots]

papaof2, I think the reference is to the purchase of PICAXE VSM rather than PICAXE chips.
As a considerable amount of the functionality comes from a "library" of parts, whether or not free component downloads and software upgrades are included or not would be a significant factor when deciding if to purchase for 'hobby' use.
Software updates (akin to Editor updates) would probably be outside Rev_Ed's control but I would guess that this forum could be used to 'share' new parts.

 

[lbenson]

When I saw that this thread was in the VSM category, I assumed that it was about this new software, and not about the chips themselves. So the question, as I see it, would be: If we buy VSM for $$, and a new version comes out in 6 months, will we have to buy it anew or will there be a reasonable upgrade policy? Likewise for when new chips come out--when we have X2 or X3 parts, what will the upgrade policy be for VSM?

By the way, VSM looks very powerful to me, and for complex tasks might provide as much increase in productivity for hardware as debuggers on PCs did for software in the 80s.

 

[Mycroft2152]

That is an interesting question about VSM software support.

Perhaps it is reasonable to look at what similar software manufacturer's offer. I would put the CAD software at the same level of complexity. On he high end, multi thousands of dollars per "seat', there is a substantial annual subscription fee for updates and suport. New libraries may be purchased for addtional fees. Businesses using this software accept the extra charges as the cost of doing business.

On the lower end under $1000, many CAD packages offer support based on a user group, web FAQ or on a set fee per phone call. User created libraries may be availible on the web. Minor updates and fixes are ususally availible at no charge, but major upgrades will cost a percentage of the original.

All of these are normal business models. There is a significant cost for updates and support that has to be passed on to the conusmer. TANSTAAFL!

For the mass marketed hobby software, the only viable business option is to sell 'new and improved" versions. Consumers have understood and readily accepted this practice to realize a low initial price.

I am not sure yur NOD32 reference is a good one. I googled the cost of the NOD32 software. a 1 year user license costs $39.95. Renewals are $27.95 per year thereafter, about 70% of the original cost. That is almost like buying a new version every year.

As a hobbyist, I usually consider the cost over the useful life of the product. If the VSM at $100 will be useful to me for a year, then I ask myself, is it worth $2 per week?

On a side note: the software behind the VSM retails for $400 for a limitied PIC chip series/ With add ons and other micros, availble for a fee of course.

 

[hippy]

Oops

When I saw that this thread was in the VSM category, I assumed that it was about this new software, and not about the chips themselves.

That's something I hadn't even noticed ... which goes towards explaining my response to anyone wondering what I was rattling on about

Viewing threads through "New Posts" and the forum it's in isn't immediately clear. Mind you nor was the announcement from Rev-Ed that the server had gone down, tucked away out of alignment with the other posts. After years of ignoring banner adverts I have a complete blind spot for any crud at the top and bottom of pages.

So, apologies for having gone off at a tangent.

 

[BCJKiwi]

@ Mycroft,
I appreciate the NOD32 renewal cost is a reasonable %age of the new cost but did you do the same pricing comparison for others - e.g. symantic?

Please let me be very clear here.
I have zero interest in trying to influence what the policy will be.
I just think it is fair and resonable to know what the policy is before making a purchase.
Only then can one make an informed decision on making such a purchase.

 

[Technical]

The VSM software licence includes all PICAXE upgrades for the software for 1 year after purchase (1 year after you receive your licence key). So if a new version chip is released within that year you will automatically gain support of that chip by downloading the update free of charge. Launch of new real chips and new VSM models of that new chip will be simultaneous. This year of updates also includes any improvements / new features in the core product.

A small annual renewal fee (£15) is required after 1 year if you want to download new updates for the following year. Naturally if you are happy working with the chips already supported in your version you do not need to buy an update ever again, the software version you own will be yours forever! It wil not 'stop working' after a year!

Naturally any bug fixes etc. will always be free to all users.

Any registered users of VSM can also swap their 'own' simple models/animations (e.g. a different colour LED) by simply exchanging .dsn design files (encouraged via this forum). However this does not include PICAXE chips themselves.

Technical / software support is always free via this forum or by contacting Revolution directly.

And yes, we are the market leader and plan to be around for a long time yet!

 

[BCJKiwi]

Thanks for the info and clarification.
Policy seems practical and reasonable to me.

 

[rbright]

Can I use a Licence on more than one machine I own at different times

I use 2 both a Desktop & Laptop PC. Can I install a single licence on both PCs but only use it one a single machine at a time, similar to the Borland licence agreement where licences were treated like a book that could only be read by one person at a time.
Regards

 

[Technical]

Yes, that is ok as long as they are both belong to / used by the same person.

 

[Andrew Cowan]

Does it have to be the consecutive year?

If I buy it now, and in 2 years the x4 chips are realeased, can I pay £15 (although I see that price is not fixed) for the updates?

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[Technical]

You can buy the extension whenever you want to.

 

[geoff07]

VSM License renewal

As I have now had VSM for almost a year, I will want to renew the license. What is the procedure for separating me from my GBP15? Tech supplies don't have renewal on their list (yet). No hurry as I have just downloaded the recent update!

I don't use it all that often but it is a very neat tool.

 

[Technical]

When an upgrade that requires a renewal is available we will add the upgrade item to the tech supplies store. You then purchase as a normal item, but will also need to add your existing VSM customer number in the basket comments box. You can find this number is the Help>About menu of the VSM software.