Programming editor and WIN-7

[cactusface]

Hi All,
Not been here for a while! a few months ago I build myself a new PC, I even went legal with a good copy of Win 7 Pro. It works fine, sadly the 3.5GHz i7 Processor still don't seem that fast, even with 8Gb of ram.
The problem I have is that if I create a new .BAS file or modify some code and then save it under a new name, Windows will not find it, it does not appear in any listings produced by windows. They are in the Open Recent list within the programming editor and I can access and find then this way, but not by say COMPUTER/PROGRAM-FILES(86X)/PROGRAM EDITOR/MYCODE/

I also use Cobian back-up which backs up all my important stuff, but because of this problem my .BAS files never get backed up, well yes the old stuff does, the stuff I'm not too bothered about!! It works fine for my Diptrace files and Docs, etc.

Anyone else had similar problems, any ideas is it Win-7 or the Prog editor or a combination of both??? As most of us perhaps use the open recent option, should you check the windows listings. Either Windows dos'ent detect the new files, or the editor keeps them secret?? or so it seems.

Regards
Mel.

 

[nick12ab]

The problem I have is that if I create a new .BAS file or modify some code and then save it under a new name, Windows will not find it, it does not appear in any listings produced by windows. They are in the Open Recent list within the programming editor and I can access and find then this way, but not by say COMPUTER/PROGRAM-FILES(86X)/PROGRAM EDITOR/MYCODE/

Have you made sure that you are checking the correct directory? There is a Program Files, a Program Files (x86) and a ProgramData directory (all in the root of the Windows installation drive) and no PROGRAM-FILES(86X) directory so make sure you don't have these mixed up.

Also if there is another installation of Windows on the same hard drive then make sure you are actually looking in the correct partition.

Also make sure that you have enabled display of Hidden Files and System Files (not that you should need to) in Folder Options.

Finally try doing a search in the Command Prompt run as an administrator: dir /s file.bas

sadly the 3.5GHz i7 Processor still don't seem that fast, even with 8Gb of ram.

Maybe a more sensible investment would have been to have got a slightly slower processor and then an SSD - no Core i7 processor or 8GB of RAM can speed up a slow hard disk (or a £30 motherboard or integrated graphics if you used those).

 

[Dippy]

I have odd behaviour similar (but not the same) with Win7.

At work I have access to HPs and a.n.other specially built (aka home-made) PCs.
The HPs are fine but the home-mades have quirks. This is Win7 32 and 64.

Example: (Often but not always btw).
In Win Explorer I can delete a file but it stays there visually even after a refresh.
At this stage the file is unusable if I click on it , so the system knows it's 'deleted' but Explorer fails to remove it from the window.
I have to exit/restart W Explorer to make it visually go away.
Ditto when copying files to another folder/directory: the file doesn't appear until I exit/restart WExplorer.
All very annoying and I've never had it happen with big name brand PCs.

And, even more annoying, on my work home-made PC it takes me at least 3 goes and a refresh to be able to log on to Forum.... aargh!
But it helps my Forum addiction so there are benefits for everyone

I wonder whether there are slight incompatibility Win7 issues with various bits of hardware made by every man and his brother.
Whereas, the Big Boys, have the budget to source or commission a hundred combinations of hardware to get it right.
In my previous place the Dells were also (nearly) flawless.
This is simply a 'gut feeling' and I have no experimental proof.

 

[srnet]

I have certainly seen situations on my own Windows 7 system where it will not show or find files that are actually still there.

On one occasion I could not find any of the .bas files on my hard disk, or the USB disk that was a mirror disk or the USB flash drive that was my backup of the backup. Windows 7 just would not acknowledge the existence of the .bas files at all.

A re-boot cured it, so assume its a Windows 7 bug, maybe cured now.

For reference, I have never seen the same behavior in other versions of Windows I have used, 3.0, WFWG 3.11, Win95, Win98, Millenium, Windows 2000, NT 3.51, Server 2000, Server 2003, Server 2008, XP or Vista.

 

[Hemi345]

At least on the four computers I've installed PE 5.5.5 (two Win7 64bit, one Win8 64bit, and a WinXP 32bit), the .bas files are saved, by default, in the users profile. Drilling down to the location in Windows Explorer on Win7 and Win8:

Libraries -> Documents -> PICAXE

or

C: -> Users -> [your username] -> My Documents -> PICAXE

If you're getting there from a command prompt:

c:\users\[your username]\documents\picaxe\

On WinXP, substitute 'documents and settings' for 'users'.

Otherwise, if you've changed the location of My Documents or messed with your profile's Library locations (Win7&8), you might need to investigate where these are now pointing.

 

[boriz]

Meh. I'd still be using win98SE if compatibility weren't an issue. (I bet your i7 would fly on that). Fingers crossed, I'm never forced to 'upgrade' from XP.

 

[premelec]

Agent Ransack

I'm running XP on a 10 year old HP and occasionally strange things happen in files not showing and such - I've found a program "Agent Ransack" works well to locate where a file is [the native XP search function is NG]. Doesn't solve problems but seems to find files if they are somewhere... [and yes I still run some old DOS programs which run very fast and take up little space ] P.S. don't know if the Agent program works on Win 7...

 

[Hemi345]

Meh. I'd still be using win98SE if compatibility weren't an issue. (I bet your i7 would fly on that). Fingers crossed, I'm never forced to 'upgrade' from XP.

No way. 98SE doesn't hold a candle to XP, same for XP to Windows 7. There are too many things that have spoiled me on Win7 to ever want to go back to using XP full time or *gasp* Win98SE for that matter. Windows 8... well, that's another story.

As Nick said, put an SSD in that new machine Cactus and let it fly. I have SSDs in most of my computers now for OS and Apps (still use a spindle for big data) and they're the best upgrade you can do, IMHO.

 

[boriz]

Problem with SSD is reliability. They wear out far to quickly. Maybe if they were longer lasting, or cheap enough to add redundancy...

 

[cactusface]

Win 7 probs??

Hi All,
Thanks for taking the time to reply.

@nick12ab, I think you might be just a little nit picking! program-files X86 may not be 100% correct but I'm sure you know what I mean!! Yes the PC is only as fast as it's slowest HD which is why I prefer the Mac where the OS is a lot faster, reliable, etc! but can't do all I need to on it, but I think we've done that old house before. I did think about an SSD in fact my Gigabyte motherboard has a build-in connector and holder for one, so who knows, maybe later..

The only reason for the i7 and 8Gb ram is for my photo work, where I can work in 48 Bit colour.

Done a bit more testing this morning, renaming files and saving. Yes the problem is still there but only with the programming editor, things in Docs and Diptrace are saved and shown correctly. Perhaps I'll download the newest version and try that, but it's comforting to see I'm not the only one having similar problems, perhaps I'm NOT going mad!!!

Regards
Mel.

 

[Hemi345]

Problem with SSD is reliability. They wear out far to quickly. Maybe if they were longer lasting, or cheap enough to add redundancy...

Yeah, the cost per GB is still much higher than mechanical HDDs but I think the performance is worth it. As far as reliability, I've been using a 60GB SSD in one of my computers since 2009 without a hiccup but I know some haven't been has fortunate. After using SSDs for so long, it's almost frustrating to use one without.

 

[Hemi345]

Done a bit more testing this morning, renaming files and saving. Yes the problem is still there but only with the programming editor, things in Docs and Diptrace are saved and shown correctly. Perhaps I'll download the newest version and try that, but it's comforting to see I'm not the only one having similar problems, perhaps I'm NOT going mad!!!

Regards
Mel.

Did you happen to change the default settings for UAC (user account control) before you installed PE? I've seen some applications behave strangely when UAC is set to lower levels or disabled.

In the Program Editor, if you choose Save As... to save the program, what location is it saving it to? If it's saving it into the actual Program Files x86 directory, then I don't doubt there will be problems since that is a 'protected' directory. More than likely, it's saving your program into a virtual store. This area usually isn't indexed or backed up. Have a look in the following path to see if anything resembling RevEd or PICAXE exists:

C:\Users\[your username]\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\

 

[nick12ab]

Problem with SSD is reliability. They wear out far to quickly. Maybe if they were longer lasting, or cheap enough to add redundancy...

Apparently it's good practice to not use more than half of the capacity of the SSD in order to improve the wear leveling. Also apparently OCZ make the most unreliable and Intel and Samsung make the most reliable.

Do not use defrag either - there are no seek times to improve and it will just add to the wear.

I don't think SSDs are any less reliable than pen drives - it's just that the latter is so slow that you don't really want to write to it often which creates the perception that they are reliable.

 

[cactusface]

Hi Hemi345,

In the Program Editor, if you choose Save As... to save the program, what location is it saving it to? If it's saving it into the actual Program Files x86 directory, then I don't doubt there will be problems since that is a 'protected' directory. More than likely, it's saving your program into a virtual store. This area usually isn't indexed or backed up. Have a look in the following path to see if anything resembling RevEd or PICAXE exists: C:\Users\[your username]\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\

I can't even get to that location after C:\users\Mel\ I have no \local\virtualStore, etc, etc.... I have always saved to C:\program files(x86)\ApplicationFolder\FOLDER for both the Program editor and Diptrace and Diptrace gives me no problems at all!! So come on technical where's the bug in the editor? I have downloaded and installed the latest version today, but no change. Perhaps I'll stick the FOLDER in the DOCs folder and see if that works any better.

Thanks again and regards
Mel.

 

[Technical]

There is no bug. You shouldn't try to save into \Program Files (x86) at all. The fault is you trying to save there rather than into \Documents.

As (by default) Windows simply doesn't allow you to save there, the files are mirrored into a parallel folder by Windows as others have already mentioned. Using Windows Explorer browse to that folder and then click the 'Compatibility Files' button at the top of the screen. This will show you where the files are being mirrored to.

 

[PeteShep]

No AppData?

AppData is Hidden.
EITHERRR
Show HiddenFiles and Folders
From "My Computer" window
Press "Alt-T" to show the tools menu - which is also hidden normally.
Then "Folder Options"
Tab "View"
Then in the advanced settings window click the radio button "Show hidden files and folders"
and OK

OOORR
navigate until the path box shows
> Computer > C: > Users > Mel
then click in the path box and it should then show
c:\Users\Mel
click in the box again and type in the box
\appdata
and Return key

and your location should move into appdata!

 

[g6ejd]

...sadly the 3.5GHz i7 Processor still don't seem that fast, even with 8Gb of ram.

Well, in an odd and slightly sadistic way, I'm glad I'm not the only one who has experienced this. A similar upgrade for me had exactly the same outcome. I was expecting significant performance improvements from my 3.5GHz i7, but alas barely any difference from the E8400 it replaced. Also adding the extra 4GB of RAM made little or no difference and it's very rare to see RAM usage climb above 2GB (win-7 64Bit). But, adding an SSD drive for the boot device made a huge difference.

 

[cactusface]

Thanks Technoman,
That's just what I wanted to hear! I have only been using Win-7 for a few months, and carried on doing things the way I did with XP, where I never came across this problem? But I did notice that Diptrace always put a couple of folders in the DOCS folder for: /My Libraries /Projects. So I will go with that and put it down to another Windows event.

@Hemi345 Yes you are right! I found them just sitting there!
@Peteshep thanks for reminding me that many files and folders are hidden from some users eyes, including mine.
@ g6ejd Yes I expected better, but perhaps I'll try an SSD drive soon.

Thanks to all, I think we can put this one to rest now, any closing comments?

Regards
Mel.

 

[Hemi345]

Win7 seems much more efficient than WinXP was with RAM. The only reason I run 8GB in my desktop at work is because I usually have a virtual machine (or two) running different OS to test my applications. I think for home use, 4GB is plenty.

For the record, my old 60GB SSD is an OCZ Vertex classic. A few that I have in PCs at work are 128GB OCZ Agility that are over 3 years old. They have all been flawless. It seems OCZ has lost focus in the last couple years and have been aiming more for throughput speeds and neglecting reliability, but the Vertex 4 in my work laptop has been running fine with Win8 for the last few months. Keep an eye on SSD prices, occasionally you can find a great deal. I bought one for my wife's laptop last year that totally transformed the performance of that machine (coming from a 5400RPM drive)... an Intel 330 series 240GB for $130

Glad you got it sorted Mel. I think you'll like Win7 once you've ironed the kinks out.

 

[john2051]

Hi, which antivirus software are you using? I have windows7 64bit pro, with an intel i5 proc.
Everything was ok until I installed norton internet security. Then I started getting created and
downloaded files not appearing. I contacted symantec, and one of their people said when windows
creates a file, or downloads one, it wont appear in explorer until windows and norton have verified
they are ok. He didnt know anyway round this as yet. Hence my curiosity of which security software.

regards john

 

[boriz]

I figure any 'upgrade' should improve functionality. The problem is, what defines improved functionality?

I define it as a low(er) frame rate on FSX.

Someone else would have a different definition. Like the guys at Google. They would (if they could) use some of your PC process time to copy your online activity, process time that I would prefer to use for FSX, given the option.

For me, it's not an upgrade, it's a 'sidegrade'.

 

[cactusface]

Hi John,
I use AVG, many years ago I had problems with a Norton App, so kept well clear of it since... We all have our fav anti-virus prog and stick to it, this is mine and it seems to do the job most of the time.
Regards
Mel.

 

[papaof2]

AVIRA is another free anti-virus solution. Between them and Microsoft, the update process has gotten slower - as in turn on the PC and wait 5 minutes before you try to use it.

 

[cactusface]

OK I was wrong!

Hi All,
Just a final post to say that! Yes the program editor and Win-7 are working fine, it was in deed me, that was causing the problem..... But I don't ever remember hearing or being told that you could'ent write to the program folder? It just makes sense to put the data in the appropriate application folder! Don't think it was ever a problem in XP, but I'm sure 7 is meant to be better and more secure and reliable??

Regards
Mel.

 

[srnet]

It just makes sense to put the data in the appropriate application folder! Don't think it was ever a problem in XP, but I'm sure 7 is meant to be better and more secure and reliable??

And a very useful security feature is to make it real hard for viruses and malware to write to and possibly overwrite genuine programs, dont you think ?

 

[hippy]

But I don't ever remember hearing or being told that you could'ent write to the program folder?

It used to be allowed but the security rationale is that, if you allow things to change from how they were at installation, you cannot say the installation is still legitimate if things have changed, and that reduces security of the system.

Microsoft responded to requests to improve security, made 'Program Files' non-changeable except through official installations etc, and offered a file virtualisation mechanism that allowed legacy programs to still operate correctly.

 

[cactusface]

Hi All,

@srnet, Yes I agree completely, but when did Microsoft plan to tell us?
@Hippy I think you have confirmed it was'ent a problem in the past, and perhaps many of us did it!! Or am I just too methodical or perhaps it's the OCD again, or just old age!!

I now officially KILL this thread! So why not visit my website instead http://melsaunders.x10.bz BT gave their FREE web hosting the chop last October, these X10 guys do free hosting, email, etc. and so far no problems. No reason to stay with BT now bad service, 500Kb download on a good day.... Hello Mr Branson

Regards
Mel.