Observation....

[cdngunner]

There sure are a lot of posts relating to serial communication issues.
Any chance Rev Ed could produce a more indepth data sheet to go thru all the ways of transmitting data in more detail?

I am sure that a good 10% of new posts would disapear. Maybe even include a trouble shooting guide.

Just a thought.

p.s. This would be useful since no matter what your end project may be with a Picaxe, you have to be able to communicate.

 

[calvinsykes]

There sure are a lot of posts relating to serial communication issues.

The one i had recently was solved by removing te standard 10k pulldown resistor from the serial input. There wasn't any mention of this in the manuals (that I could find) and common sense would lead you to beleive that since it is required for 'normal' inputs, you'd need it for serial ones as well.

So yeah, would definetely help first-timers like me

 

[inglewoodpete]

Communication between 2 systems will always be a challenge, even if both are PICAXEs. It's often difficult to view what is happening at both ends of a communications link ... and then try to see how the logs from each end fit together.

I have been writing asynch communication code for nearly 30 years and it doesn't seem to get much easier. Actually, experience does teach you a lot but you tend to get more ambitious as your skill level goes up.

I'm an advocate of experienca docet. The best way to learn is to fall down a few times. And ask for help when you have a problem to solve.

Even if someone was to write a serial comms document, the difficulty would be to get people to read it before jumping in. After all, the perception is that with only a couple of wires, serial comms is easy, isn't it?

 

[Pauldesign]

The one i had recently was solved by removing te standard 10k pulldown resistor from the serial input

I doubt if that was really the problem.

May be it was just intermittent and you just got lucky.

 

[hippy]

The one i had recently was solved by removing te standard 10k pulldown resistor from the serial input. There wasn't any mention of this in the manuals (that I could find) and common sense would lead you to beleive that since it is required for 'normal' inputs, you'd need it for serial ones as well.

So yeah, would definetely help first-timers like me

I can't recall the specific details but in most cases a 10K pull-down wouldn't affect serial comms and should only affect RS232 devices, and in that case because the pull-down would alter the prerequisite interface to something other than was required.

As inglewoodpete notes, comms is not necessarily a simple matter, though it can be. Experience does help, being without experience can be a problem, but it's hard to see how any document could cover all the situations someone without experience may run into. There's also the additional problem of wireless 433MHz comms which go far beyond serial comms itself.

First thing would be to determine where PICAXE users are having problems, and what with. I'm personally not convinced 10% of new posts are about serial problems but haven't counted them!

 

[calvinsykes]

May be it was just intermittent and you just got lucky.

I'm still being lucky three weeks later!

 

[buntay]

As inglewoodpete notes, comms is not necessarily a simple matter, though it can be. Experience does help, being without experience can be a problem, but it's hard to see how any document could cover all the situations someone without experience may run into.

I would disagree. The manual really doesn't cover any situations/problems that could occur. Any manual dwelling deeper into the subject would help. I thank god for all the help and previous posts. maybe just make a manual out of the different posts one could find on the subject? I may just do this

 

[Dippy]

I think this will initiate lots of replies as there are so many opinions.

I tend to agree with hippy's points in Post6 para 2.
No, there isn't much help in Rev-Ed's documentation... and i can understand it completely. To try and cover even 50% of the modules out there (which range from excellent all the way down to wet-RF-String) would be a MAMMOTH task.
Trying to coach novices and provide a Fault/Cure section would be a monster.
Time and resources are a major problem.
Spending 3 weeks (unpaid) writing a document is a chore - and people would still moan.
Trying to describe solutions/suggestions for every ten-penny Chinese module would be a nightmare.

Bottom line: you will never get a full document on this subject. Forget it.

Maybe someone (maybe retired or at a loose end) could pull together the very useful information splattered over this Forum over the years - and post it somewhere.

Whatever happened to the consideration for a Wiki style tutorial section?
Did it die a death like the enthusiasm for tutorials?
Didn't Rev-Ed say they would consider it early this year? - well, blow me down, it IS early this year....
A pity. One day eh?

Maybe we can have something a bit like what they do on the Proton site?

 

[cdngunner]

Not saying that every variable/possiblity should be covered, but just the most common problems.

 

[hippy]

Can someone categorise what the most common problems are ?

Not trying to be obtuse just trying to understand what they are. As a 'seasoned vet' who's been at it for years it's sometimes difficult to see things exactly as a newcomer would.

If someone said they were "having problems hammering in a screw" a fair but terse response would be to "use a screwdriver" and probably wonder where they got such a misguided idea from in the first place. People do however have to learn somehow that screws are screwed, nails are hammered.

On the other hand, it can be a case of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, where inexperience or over-reach takes a new user into territory they are not equipped to deal with. It seems to me that most serial issues fall into this category. It's true again that people need to learn 'how to' in order to progress and it's how to provide that 'how to' or say what's most appropropriate which has to be decided. And that depends on what the problems actually are.

 

[eclectic]

And there's a bit more info
(albeit on a more advanced level,)

in the
Samples folder,
accessed from P.E.

e

 

[knight]

I think this will initiate lots of replies as there are so many opinions.

I tend to agree with hippy's points in Post6 para 2.
No, there isn't much help in Rev-Ed's documentation... and i can understand it completely. To try and cover even 50% of the modules out there (which range from excellent all the way down to wet-RF-String) would be a MAMMOTH task.
Trying to coach novices and provide a Fault/Cure section would be a monster.
Time and resources are a major problem.
Spending 3 weeks (unpaid) writing a document is a chore - and people would still moan.
Trying to describe solutions/suggestions for every ten-penny Chinese module would be a nightmare.

Bottom line: you will never get a full document on this subject. Forget it.

Maybe someone (maybe retired or at a loose end) could pull together the very useful information splattered over this Forum over the years - and post it somewhere.

Whatever happened to the consideration for a Wiki style tutorial section?
Did it die a death like the enthusiasm for tutorials?
Didn't Rev-Ed say they would consider it early this year? - well, blow me down, it IS early this year....
A pity. One day eh?

Maybe we can have something a bit like what they do on the Proton site?

There was a start on a wiki, i registered one and other people have written a couple of articles.
However there was a general consensus of "wikis are bad, we don't want a wiki, this forum is good enough"

I don't know, i reakon it would be a good idea, but hey. If people want it, i'm willing to help write and run it, but if no-one wants it or plans to use it, there's not much point spending the time on it.

 

[cdngunner]

Maybe a stickied thread pointing each new batch of students and the like in that direction would be a good idea.

I know I would use it, as right now I probably solve half my problems by using sources outside of the picaxe forum that I found from googling.

its a good thing that Picaxe is getting popular and a lot of people are publishing their accomplishments on the web

 

[eclectic]

A genuine suggestion to knight, cdng, or anyone

1. Collate and check your information.

2. Post it on the Active Forum for Peer Review.

3. If it "passes", post in
Finished Projects Hints and tips.

Wiki or others can be over-written.

At least here, there is only
"addition"-written.

e

 

[westaust55]

Maybe a stickied thread pointing each new batch of students and the like in that direction would be a good idea.

I know I would use it, as right now I probably solve half my problems by using sources outside of the picaxe forum that I found from googling.

its a good thing that Picaxe is getting popular and a lot of people are publishing their accomplishments on the web

Ah, yes - sticky posts

there is a sticky read me already:
http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7679

Now as at this instant, that has been read just 6373 time (thats about to go up right now )
yet we at this instant, have 53863 forum members

Moral is it many do not read or search first.
They just ask the same question that was asked only yesterday or within the past week.

 

[hippy]

The manual really doesn't cover any situations/problems that could occur. Any manual dwelling deeper into the subject would help.

PICAXE Manual 3 does have a section on serial interfacing but you are correct it does not go into detail on problems which may occur, taking the approach that if done properly it will work as described. Likewise it doesn't cover all situations, perhaps assuming that if one is doing something advanced or complicated that the programmer will understand the implications of what they are attempting to do.

Most of the problems which have arisen seem to me to fall into a category of "you didn't do it right" or "that won't work", and most commonly misunderstandings of what is being sent and received, particularly the difference between an ASCII value ( a number ) and a numeric string ( a set of consecutive ASCII values representing numeric digits ). The manual does cover that but perhaps needs further explanation. On the other hand it may be that people haven't read what documentation there is and therefore walk into the mistakes they make not understanding why.