my 40x1 unpredictable

[Akat]

first, sorry for my english... it's not my native..

* i just bought picaxe 40x1 (pic16f877 i beleive) along with the 28x/40x project board (AXE022) and as well the serial cable.. well, everything is well soldered already when it reach me.. then i put into the slot picaxe 40x1 to start download the simple program i wrote long time ago into it (and my codes run very well in within the simulation of 28x1 mode in the editor).. (my editor version is 5.1.6)

* now, come my trouble, first i try with the simple testing program (the blinking LED).. i realize it's hard to download to my picaxe.. most of the time, it failed.. in 100 downloads, only 1 to 3 were succeed.. most of the time, it can't detect anything on the line... i've tried to set down the baud of my comm to 2400, 4800 and 9600... but still the same probs.. now i set back up to 9600...

* talking about the successfull download, when it sometimes give me a chance of feeling happy, it first gimme a dialog window saying that my mode is not right, it detect that i have to set to 28x mode only with 4MHz.. the i set it to what it suggested, then download it with a flying colours.. so the test programming running very well... nice, blinking LED with pause 1 sec on every toggle.. then i try to download my program that i wrote into it but it failed to connect so many times like 50 or something with only 1 successfull at the end.. im very frustrated hit f5 over and over again.. then do a few changes and want to download it back into it, it failed to connect again and again... even i tried with everything that i could also the same thing happens.. try to download with the testing program back also failed, even i try to clear the hardware memory also failed... i move from the laptop to my PC now... the same desease happens...

* my question, it come up to my prediction - is that because i used 40x1 on the 28x/40x project board? is that why my successfull download ask me to set to 28x (PIC16f874A) only?? im decided to buy 40x1 cos a lot more function and memory that i really need in my project instead of buying 40x (and as far as i know, 40x superseeded by 40x1 already rite?).. so i can't compile a few codes from my project because of that... which is i comment it out for while to make sure that it can compile succesfully.. then i try with 4.5v batter and 9v battery also the same 'hard to download' problems still remains.. it's more weird, when i compiled (successfull one) and download it into the picaxe, even i disconnect the external 4MHz, it still can run smoothly (which is i beleive internal resonator only appear in x1 chip only rite)... the why my codes still running when i programmed with x mode instead of x1 mode? - means that, the benefit of picaxe 887 is still can be accesed with no problem rite? so why do i have to set it to 28x mode instead and narrow down the capabilities of x1??? and is state my firmware is 7.8 for 28x and firmware 8.0 for 28x1 in bracket? but the most important thing to settle down is, how to download with just only once 'magic finger'.. is that normal that at all time u guys download, its only 30 percent of success?

 

[MartinM57]

It doesn't help solve your problem, but I have a 40X1 with external resonator and enhanced download circuit and get 100% successful downloads

 

[Akat]

so what's my solution now??? i really don't know why my picaxe is hard to download... till up today, i only manage to download it to 5 times only... and it's been a week already the system in my hand, but 5 times of download it quite terrible for RnD... the rest is failed which is i don't know why... is that my cable is corrupted?? btw, i bought the cable from rev-ed and not DIY cable anyway... is there any way to check all these matters?

 

[BCJKiwi]

You have mentioned that the board came ready assembled.
Does it have the 7805 Regulator circuit on it?
If not then you must NOT use a 9V Battery - voltage must be kept at 5v or less to the PICAXE!!
Either way you need to check the jumpers carefully to ensure they are correctly set for the power supply you are using.

There are a number of other jumpers that need to be set properly as well
- all covered in the data sheet for the AXE022.

Once you are absolutely sure you have that all correct, there are a couple things to try;

1. Make sure you have
#PICAXE 40X1
at the top of your program
2. Turn off the power to the project board (disconnect the battery),
Click Run (or press F5)
As soon as the downloading dialog box comes on screen,
turn ON the power to the project board (connect the battery ensuring one clean connection!).

If that doesn't work then there is definitely a problem somewhere and further investigation will be needed.

 

[Akat]

its ready assembled but without the 7805 in... i bought from local radioshack 7805 to fit in when the 9V is in (and of course the J3 jumper were set according to the document)(and also everything very fine that i get 5v at V+ rail means that my 7805 are really functioning well)

thank for this suggestion BCJ, i'll gonna try this now, i'll get back when something still occur..

 

[Akat]

updated!!!

ive tried with the directive #picaxe 40x1 but nothing happens... it still ask me to set back to 28x instead... and the chip still hard to download.. just now, 52 time of hitting the F5 only 1 is the one which success.. 52:1 ratio is one big headache to me though...

 

[MFB]

I assume you have the regulator mounted on the same board as the PICAXE? If the board dose not already have a large value (say, 47uF,10v) electrolytic capacitor between the ground and 5V lines, with a 0.1uF in parallel, then try adding them. The only time I have had problems downloading programmes is when I have not had adequote decoupling capacitors on the power lines. The PIC draws a lot more current when programming its onboard Flash.

 

[Technical]

What is the PIC16Fxxx number on the top of your chip?

When you click View>Options>Mode>Firmware? what is the exact message returned?

Does the Firmware? button always work when you press it, or do you get 'not found' messages?

 

[D n T]

PICAXE 40X With protype booard.

Check the data sheet and double check you board verion, see the Errata note on the first page of the data sheet, because if you have the regulator in backwards you will have big headache.
I take it your jumps are all in the correct place, see the bottom of the first page of the data sheet.
The prototype board used the advanced download circuit as standard.

Another thought:
Have you tried the Serial port "TEST" button ??
click on the options button on the programming editor page, next to the printer icon,
click on "SERIAL PORT"
Follow the directions for the test, is your serial port set up, these tests will help.

ALTERNATLEY, could you build a download circuit using breadboard??
This will let you test and see if the board is broken or the chip is broken.

I hope this helps somehow

I am using an AXE 022 now but with a 40X chip and have had no problems.

 

[kaleido]

Hey Akat, I'm having the exact same problem. Tried everything I could think of. Have ordered new 40X1 chip just in case and a 28X1 so I can try that as well. Your lucky though, because I've still not managed a download. The only success I've had is pressing reset as I'm pressing the firmware button. This finally recognised that I had a chip installed.

When I first went to power the chip I used 4 AA's with a diode (as suggested in the manual) and the voltage was 5.95V. I have since reduced this to 3 AA without a diode (4.7V). Is it possible that this higher voltage somehow damaged my chip? This is the only thing I can think of so far.

I started my own thread before I found yours (look for Kaleido). Just thought of something, are the pin configurations the same between the 40X and the 40X1?

 

[kaleido]

Got mine working. Cleaned my board with solvent spray (to clean connection pins I'd added) and set mode to 28X (not 28X1) (don't know why it won't recognise it as a 40X1 chip). In options>editor I set compiler to original and serial terminal to open after download.

Also, when it finally downloaded the program to the chip, the example program was based on output 4. It worked for me on ouputs 5,6,7 and not the others. I suspect that the hpwm command on 40X1 needs to be turned off (or something) seemings thats the only difference I can see between the outputs on 40X and 40X1.

Downloads are working nearly 100% now (the odd experimental mishap).

Anyway, I'm happy now. Apparently I didn't break my new toy and can start playing...cheers

 

[Akat]

once i soldered 7805 into the same board, i put the leg wrong... 123, become 321... (actually the drawing on the board is wrong)... so i study the circuit back then put in back in the right orientation... my PIC stated on PIC16F887 (40x1 is it? not 40x) and it say the firmware is 7.8 in bracket 8.0 for 40x1... i don't understand what it is.. and i do serial port test with no problem... i've check like what it suggested with no prob... got reading like what it said when toggle the light on and off... the probs came when i try to download... it always failed... most of time it give me the dialog window saying it can't connect at all, either through download or firmware button click.. kaleido, good thinking man... i'm gonna try it tonight.. so u have no problem with ur toys now? u r sooo lucky now.. but we still need to ask about that 40x and 40x1 stuff... my chip is 887 chip then why it can't recognise as 40x1 instead of 40x??? i need more memory like 40x1 offer, and that's why i buy 40x1 in the first place, then why i can't use it?...

 

[Akat]

i'm trying to search for ur solution in the thread, but everything was edited by state issue resolved... i hope i still can see how u do it and the recommendation on how to... for me, and for other that face the same probs like us hope u can put it back somewhere like here or back in ur thread... thanx kaleido

 

[GreenLeader]

Hi
I also have the axe022 and a 40X1. I am getting ready to try it out but have not connected anything up yet.
The data sheet, accessed through the Programming Editor help, now has the errata about the regulator being shown incorrectly on the PCB. (maybe that's damaged the chip on the above posts?)

I would like to look at the PCB layout before I start hooking things up in view of the difficulties mentioned in above posts. But there is not one included in any data sheets I have seen so far. Could anyone post the PCB layout? Most of the text labeling on my board is illegible because its chopped off by the pads.

There is also an unmarked pad on the circuit board between the 78L05 and the 40X1 that is connected to pads labeled "37" on teh top right corner of the PCB..
thanks in advance...

 

[BCJKiwi]

I don't think the actual PCB is published.
You may have to trace it from the circuit diagram unless someone can post a photo of a board that is legible - sorry don't have an AXE022.

You can (should?) test with 3 x 1.5v batteries before you try the 7805.

 

[eclectic]

I've just received two 40X1 (PIC16F887) from Rapid.
I'm using two computers and two working AXE022 boards.
An “old” 40X and new 28X1 work fine, on both boards, with both computers.

On both of the new chips.. ...
1. A firmware test sometimes shows

“Error hardware not found on com 4 " OR,

“ Firmware version 7.8
(PICAXE 28X(40X) Firmware version 8)”

Significantly, the “Found” message is WITHOUT an external resonator.

2. The chip CAN be programmed in 40X mode, without a resonator,
but, will not accept any new 40X1 commands such as calibadc.

3. Changing or removing resonator jumpers (4MHz and 16MHz) before or during program operation
makes no difference. It carries on working.

Anyone got a magic trick to turn my confused chips into 40X1 ?
e.

 

[MartinM57]

My 40X1 (also from Rapid) (and with external 16Mhz resonator, all on homemade wire wrapped matrix board with Enhanced Download Circuit) reports 100% of the time:

"Firmware Version A.2
(PICAXE 28X1(40X1) Firmware version 2)”

Looks like your PIC16F887's aren't 40X1's

 

[Akat]

why my picaxe (pic16f887) not feed with 40x1 firmware???? i bought from rapid too.. i am very2 frustrated on this issue... since the first day i bought, now it's been two weeks time, nothing i can program and have fun yet... my picaxe never been touched by other program yet, up until now, im still playing with 'testing code' over and over again. it's getting buggy and buggy and buggy... sometimes, when i got success download, it never gimme 'happy feeling' for long. it blinking fine, but when i hit reset button, it stop forever... either the download cable in or not, it still giving me the same thing.

i programmed PIC for quite sometime already (using old method, programmer download) without having such problems like this before... i don't know what can i do now.. it was like dead end to me with picaxe.. i've tried everything up to this time.. even rebuild the circuit on my own PCB, but still the same desease happens.. it was a mistake when i overlooked to this picaxe website n i love the easiness in what picaxe offer, but never realise that this is the 'easiness' meaning that i have to face every single day until now... as far as i remember (i read somewhere), picaxe have no warranty on the chip they sold, which is if something happen to my chip (like what im facing right now), i can't claim on anything.. *sigh*... rather than facing all these, im choosing to use conventional way of programming instead now... so frustrating... even more frustrated, i bought from rapid also, with the chip pic16f887 stated on it, but i have old firmware 7.8??? not even 40x1 bootstrap??? and that is my fault too?? and by the way, im from malaysia, which for me, it's hard when the things like this happen to me, it's not easy for me to get the same picaxe chip around here somewhere.. *sigh*

so, one last question, what are suggested thing for me to do 'BEFORE I BURN MY PIC INTO BLANK PIC with my programmer, and act it as 'not picaxe' anymore...

 

[inglewoodpete]

While it is possible that there is something wrong with your 40X1, I suspect not. [Edit: I could be wrong. see post #22] Generally, PICAXEs are extremely reliable.

I have used 08Ms (several), 14M, 18A, 28X and, recently, 40X1. I have had practically no trouble with them.

The most common problem in electronics is connections. I suspect you could have a connection problem between the computer and the PICAXE on its board. Are you able to confirm that there is a reliable connection for each on the 3 wires in the serial cable?

Is the PC a laptop? Many laptops do not supply +-12v on the serial transmit lead. The 22k + 10k download resistors are most suited to +-12v for the PC's serial port.

Finally, is the reset leg pulled high? Does a reset button reliably pull the leg low? In a humid climate, the reset function may be affecting the PICAXE.

I can understand your frustration. Stay with it, PICAXEs are worth the learning curve.

 

[eclectic]

Curioser and curioser

I've just set up the following:-

PIC16F887 (bought as 40X1)
AXE022 board
AXE027 cable
Infrared receiver connected to Input 0 (D0 on board)

NO resonators connected.

Program =

#picaxe 40x
main:
infrain
sertxd (#infra,cr,lf)
pause 500
goto main

It works!

But it SHOULDN'T !

40X needs an external resonator.
40X1 uses the "irin" command.

Totally baffled.

 

[MartinM57]

Manual 2 p.72 says that infrain is an X part (eg 40X) command...

 

[Technical]

We have discovered that a very small batch of 16F877 (less than 50) were recently incorrectly programmed by a junior member of staff using the 40X code instead of the 40X1 code. Unfortunately they passed the 40X download test after programming - something we hadn't even considered was possible - in theory the 40X code shouldn't run at all on 16F877 as they are very different raw PICs!

We sincerely apologise for this issue. The number of chips involved is very small and replacements will be automatically sent today to those who have incorrect devices. We believe we have traced the contact details of all customers involved. Only 5 have been sold by Rapid, the others from techsupplies. No other distributors are involved.

A faulty chip will be marked PIC16F877 but when the View>Options>Firmware button is pressed will report back as 40X v7.8 instead of 40X1.

1) All faulty stock has been removed form Rapid & TechSupplies. Any future orders shipped will be correct chips.
2) The test procedure has now been modified to prevent this happening again.
3) The member of staff involved with the error has been retrained.

Once again we apologise for this issue.

 

[hal9000]

Is there any chance my non-functioning 40X1 devices purchased recently are related to this problem? (posted in other recent threads) my setup works fine for 28x1, but the two 40x1's i purchased are unresponsive.
Now you have actually identified a problem, i have a bit more faith in maybe buying some more, gambling that the new ones to arrive might actually work... Obviously, i'm reluctant to throw good money after bad, but i'm in need of workers...
Is there any way i can find out if i'm on the lucky list to recieve new ones or not?