Mil-Spec PICAXE
- Thread starter MoonGoon
- Start date
Well, obv only Technical can answer that. And you would have to define quantity too. Though I'm sure you can get anything if your wallet is big enough.
But, may I suggest you have a look at Microchip PIC data sheets. Usually they are offered as Industrial or Extended. Maybe there are some special options. See if that meets your criteria as I think it only refers to temp related specs, not 100% sure.
"And i havnt actually broken it yet." - Yet? Are you going to have another go today?
But, may I suggest you have a look at Microchip PIC data sheets. Usually they are offered as Industrial or Extended. Maybe there are some special options. See if that meets your criteria as I think it only refers to temp related specs, not 100% sure.
"And i havnt actually broken it yet." - Yet? Are you going to have another go today?
I plan on using PICAXE in an environment that is potentially high in temperature (+50 C airtempt) and massively high in vibration and shock waves. The chip needs to perform under all possible conditions. And the company i work for doesnt use sub-standard parts when it comes to these conditions.
So .. Technical, any idea if its possible to get Mil-Spec for PICAXE?
Quantity of 500.
So .. Technical, any idea if its possible to get Mil-Spec for PICAXE?
Quantity of 500.
While we might find PIC Micros produced to a Mil-Spec you'll find a great price increase for the verification process but you will then find that a Mil-Spec PICaxe has an additional hurdle in the verification of the software.
Any other specification will most likely detract from the Mil-Spec
Mil-Spec + Other Spec < Mil-Spec
best regards,
colin
Just missed your post by a minute.... You might want to look at the extended ranges of PIC and make a special request to RevEd - while very reliable I'd guess they'll say the risk of failure is yours and subject to your testing!
Any other specification will most likely detract from the Mil-Spec
Mil-Spec + Other Spec < Mil-Spec
best regards,
colin
Just missed your post by a minute.... You might want to look at the extended ranges of PIC and make a special request to RevEd - while very reliable I'd guess they'll say the risk of failure is yours and subject to your testing!
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1. What 'MIL' spec for PICs??
2. You obviously haven't looked at Microchip Data Sheets re: temp performance. Industrial up to 85oC and Extended up to 125oC.
3. Protecting the complete device from all other nasties is down to you.
4. Testing the product in that environment is down to you obviously.
I think we're starting to confuse component 'electrical' specification with product spec now.
2. You obviously haven't looked at Microchip Data Sheets re: temp performance. Industrial up to 85oC and Extended up to 125oC.
3. Protecting the complete device from all other nasties is down to you.
4. Testing the product in that environment is down to you obviously.
I think we're starting to confuse component 'electrical' specification with product spec now.
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
what is the highest tempreture it is likely to be subjected to?
i have used pic18f4550 based dataloggers in tempretures ranging from
-37.5c all the way to +120c granted the board was encased in a solid polymer (liquid nails) inside an aluminium case
i have used pic18f4550 based dataloggers in tempretures ranging from
-37.5c all the way to +120c granted the board was encased in a solid polymer (liquid nails) inside an aluminium case
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
sorry read it wrong(bourbon and all),
moongoon , i suggest you give technical a quick email
moongoon , i suggest you give technical a quick email
Moongoon: Massive vibration & shock waves at ~50°C! Sounds like a heavy metal nightclub. What ARE you doing? In my experiences such "abuse" means sundry attached components,PCB tracks, power supplies & wiring (especially flexible) etc will probably fail well before hi-tech PIC/PICAXEs.
But I see you're a fellow Kiwi - is this thermal region/earthquake related? Why not just grab a few 08Ms from Surplustronics & thrash them yourself? There are plenty of local high schools that'd willingly supply testosterone fueled teens too I'd say. For a few dozen ale you could maybe coerce a rugby club to give your circuits serious "drop kick" punishment!
Extra: Plan on $$$$($$$) budgets. As the infamous "$640 USAF toilet seat & $76 2¢ screw " era indicates, almost any mil spec. equipment will be orders of magnitude more costly that the civilian equivalent. Google for endless sagas,many stretching back to ancient times, but for a taster consider -
But I see you're a fellow Kiwi - is this thermal region/earthquake related? Why not just grab a few 08Ms from Surplustronics & thrash them yourself? There are plenty of local high schools that'd willingly supply testosterone fueled teens too I'd say. For a few dozen ale you could maybe coerce a rugby club to give your circuits serious "drop kick" punishment!
Extra: Plan on $$$$($$$) budgets. As the infamous "$640 USAF toilet seat & $76 2¢ screw " era indicates, almost any mil spec. equipment will be orders of magnitude more costly that the civilian equivalent. Google for endless sagas,many stretching back to ancient times, but for a taster consider -
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demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
it could be strapped to the engine of a badily tuned tank in the middle of a warzone
"...sundry attached components,PCB tracks & wiring etc will probably fail well before PIC/PICAXEs."
- well I don't want one of your pcbs then
(But I know what you mean).
"it could be strapped to the engine of a badily tuned tank in the middle of a warzone "
- hmm... might get a tad above 50oC if that were the case.
Oh, oh, don't mention aerospace or else the gloom'n'doom fraternity will fill the thread with tales of woe.
Anyway MoonGoon, a normal PIC/PICAXE is electrically specced well above 50oC. How about the rest of your components/wiring/connectors/enclosure/batteries ?
- well I don't want one of your pcbs then
(But I know what you mean)."it could be strapped to the engine of a badily tuned tank in the middle of a warzone "
- hmm... might get a tad above 50oC if that were the case.
Oh, oh, don't mention aerospace or else the gloom'n'doom fraternity will fill the thread with tales of woe.
Anyway MoonGoon, a normal PIC/PICAXE is electrically specced well above 50oC. How about the rest of your components/wiring/connectors/enclosure/batteries ?
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
Dippy;62940 Oh said:
OH MY GOD YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!!!!!
Sorry. Haven't been here in a while (had a baby) and couldn't contain myself!
But... I don't think this has quite the doom connotations of pulse discharging a couple thousand volts from relatively volatile components in a primary education environment
--Andy P
With out giving away too much. It will be used in a military vehicle.
The shock waves will come from the fact that its placed near the vehicles main gun. The shock waves are large. Cant give you meaurements right now.
Temperature is only a concern if other systems in the vehicle were to fail, but it could happen so it must be considered.
My question of Mil-Spec is because of vibration, my personal experience with microcontrollers themselfs is limited, thats why im asking.
Question: Has anyone had a PICAXE loose its program due to "rough" physical treatment of the device it was being used in ????
The shock waves will come from the fact that its placed near the vehicles main gun. The shock waves are large. Cant give you meaurements right now.
Temperature is only a concern if other systems in the vehicle were to fail, but it could happen so it must be considered.
My question of Mil-Spec is because of vibration, my personal experience with microcontrollers themselfs is limited, thats why im asking.
Question: Has anyone had a PICAXE loose its program due to "rough" physical treatment of the device it was being used in ????
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
how large are we talking?
unless we're talking 100mm cannon type i wouldn't be too concerned about that, it's more everything around the chip that maybe the problem eg batteries sensors casing. the worst i've ever inflicted in on a pic is a small data logger with an accellerometer bolted to the the hub of a suburau wrx rally car owned by a bloke my brother works for in queensland,
it's been running without fault now for a few years
unless we're talking 100mm cannon type i wouldn't be too concerned about that, it's more everything around the chip that maybe the problem eg batteries sensors casing. the worst i've ever inflicted in on a pic is a small data logger with an accellerometer bolted to the the hub of a suburau wrx rally car owned by a bloke my brother works for in queensland,
it's been running without fault now for a few years
You could pot the whole thing in resin or potting mix. Just bring out the power supply leads and/or charging leads if the batteries are inside. Solder everything (no batteries in battery holders). Then pot it all. Resin has kept insects preserved for millions of years so this should work for a picaxe!
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
i would even go as far as to suggest mounting the whole thing inside a small cube of casting resin then have that in somthing like a non newtonian fluid filled bag or box,
dpg - I just saw your earlier post embedding it in liquid nails in an aluminium case. I can see a lot of merit in that. Liquid nails doesn't go completely hard. You could probably drop that out of a plane and it would survive.
Does this device have to sense anything and can those sensors be potted as well? Is it battery powered (batteries derated for 50C?)
Does this device have to sense anything and can those sensors be potted as well? Is it battery powered (batteries derated for 50C?)
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
it also doesn't disolve the pins and doesn't generally conduct when just squeezed out of the tube
it';s also dirt cheap
it';s also dirt cheap
"....my personal experience with microcontrollers themselfs is limited...."
"....my personal experience with microcontrollers themselfs is limited...."
Ergo your experience with modern electronic engineering is limited.
And your going to take on the role of developing militairy equipment?
I served in a armoured regiment as the loader on the gun. Im glad you didn't design any of the gear that I might of had to stake my life on.
Maybe you should get a few leds to flash first and go from there.
"....my personal experience with microcontrollers themselfs is limited...."
Ergo your experience with modern electronic engineering is limited.
And your going to take on the role of developing militairy equipment?
I served in a armoured regiment as the loader on the gun. Im glad you didn't design any of the gear that I might of had to stake my life on.
Maybe you should get a few leds to flash first and go from there.
Good point BrendanP. But hey, maybe the military is seeking to cut costs by outsourcing. Your ranging system for your gun could be built on a breadboard...
I would have thought a public forum would be the last place military developers would go. Military people tend to be a bit secretive - 'you know, I *could* tell you, but then I would have to kill you'.
I would have thought a public forum would be the last place military developers would go. Military people tend to be a bit secretive - 'you know, I *could* tell you, but then I would have to kill you'.
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
basically a liquid until it is provided with an inpact then it turns solid until the energy is dissapated then it turns back to a fluid again,
it nice stuff to use for things like armour in a game of paintball
(yes it does have some weight but the vest i wore only weighed 1.2kg, the actaul "plates" of fluid were only about 2mm thick on average and did cover much all that well just the essentials like my back chest stomach and neck,
there are synthetic oil based variations but they simply need to higher impact to before they so solid
i've always wanted to try somthing like cornstarch powder with baby oil or engine oil i dare say the results may be interesting
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
in my experience devlopers of military hardware and software don't go to public forums and generally are allowed to
my guess is that at best this is a soldier of some description making somthing to make his life a little easier when doing his job,
This is Monty Python stuff.
"....And the company i work for doesn't use sub-standard parts when it comes to these conditions...." So says the poster, no mention of some hapless trooper trying to do a bit of DIY on a MBT.
This is Monty Python stuff.
"....And the company i work for doesn't use sub-standard parts..."
Thats good to know, they should apply the same standard/philosophy to their personel.
(I know, Im starting to sound like Dippy. Its all in good fun MoonGoon, best of luck with the project.)
"....And the company i work for doesn't use sub-standard parts when it comes to these conditions...." So says the poster, no mention of some hapless trooper trying to do a bit of DIY on a MBT.
This is Monty Python stuff.
"....And the company i work for doesn't use sub-standard parts..."
Thats good to know, they should apply the same standard/philosophy to their personel.
(I know, Im starting to sound like Dippy. Its all in good fun MoonGoon, best of luck with the project.)
"Question: Has anyone had a PICAXE loose its program due to "rough" physical treatment of the device it was being used in ????" - I assume you mean 'lose'?
As uPs are used in everything you can think of then I shouldn't worry about that. As said, it's the physical side that you need to worry about. Though obv if you shake anything hard enough it'll fall off. But if uPs can live in missiles....probably covered in No More Nails or cotton wool.
I think DPG is referring to thixotropic fluids. Though 'non-Newtonian' does sound more impressive. Mix a thick solution of Cornflour and water as a cheap example. Then waggle your spoon real quick and then slow and observe.... not quite tough enough for bullet-proof jackets though maybe in cricket gloves.
I'm getting a bit worried about DPG who wants to cover himself in cornstarch and baby oil. Is this a thermal insulation for use in the trans-ocean canoe?
And using it near hot gun will at least provide you with tasty muffins for lunch. Though I'm sure any sober CO would have a fit if a squaddie starts connecting home-brew gear in a MIL-spec vehicle.
Casting resins of whatever description are handy but can be a tad inconvenient for servicing. And the totally rigid ones can have expansion issues. As I am very impatient I would use a 2-part resin as I haven't got days to wait around.
Anyway, back to things; Moongoon, be assured that technically (theoretically) the PICAXE will survive the temps you gave and vibrations. But it is how you contruct , assemble , connect and enclose the device that will dictate whether it'll live or die. And also filtering of power supply if running from vehicle electrics.
Good luck.
PS> BrendanP starting to sound like me? You'd better visit a shrink quick. But hopefully not dressed as in Drac's terrific joke which has now done a lap of ASI btw.
As uPs are used in everything you can think of then I shouldn't worry about that. As said, it's the physical side that you need to worry about. Though obv if you shake anything hard enough it'll fall off. But if uPs can live in missiles....probably covered in No More Nails or cotton wool.
I think DPG is referring to thixotropic fluids. Though 'non-Newtonian' does sound more impressive. Mix a thick solution of Cornflour and water as a cheap example. Then waggle your spoon real quick and then slow and observe.... not quite tough enough for bullet-proof jackets though maybe in cricket gloves.
I'm getting a bit worried about DPG who wants to cover himself in cornstarch and baby oil. Is this a thermal insulation for use in the trans-ocean canoe?
And using it near hot gun will at least provide you with tasty muffins for lunch. Though I'm sure any sober CO would have a fit if a squaddie starts connecting home-brew gear in a MIL-spec vehicle.
Casting resins of whatever description are handy but can be a tad inconvenient for servicing. And the totally rigid ones can have expansion issues. As I am very impatient I would use a 2-part resin as I haven't got days to wait around.
Anyway, back to things; Moongoon, be assured that technically (theoretically) the PICAXE will survive the temps you gave and vibrations. But it is how you contruct , assemble , connect and enclose the device that will dictate whether it'll live or die. And also filtering of power supply if running from vehicle electrics.
Good luck.
PS> BrendanP starting to sound like me? You'd better visit a shrink quick. But hopefully not dressed as in Drac's terrific joke which has now done a lap of ASI btw.
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"BrendonP ..... a gun loader? ... hardcore career choice. That must have been a difficult job with extensive technical training im sure "
A difficult job? yes, and with substandard, amatuer hour, weapons/equipment even more so.
And yes, there actually IS a bit of tech. training that goes into the training of a armoured vehcles crew including the loader.
Perhaps not as much as you have had which makes your question even more ludicrous because I'm not the one foolish enough to think he's going to incorporate what is essentially a educational training aid into a weapons sytems and still have cred.
Its been a while since Ive seen any enginneers from Raytheon, Boeing or GM come on here and begin asking questions. But they're in the US which has a proven track record of weapons production not NZ which has a proven track record of errrrr..... thats it wool and cheese production.
Oh, and production of emigrants to Australia.
A difficult job? yes, and with substandard, amatuer hour, weapons/equipment even more so.
And yes, there actually IS a bit of tech. training that goes into the training of a armoured vehcles crew including the loader.
Perhaps not as much as you have had which makes your question even more ludicrous because I'm not the one foolish enough to think he's going to incorporate what is essentially a educational training aid into a weapons sytems and still have cred.
Its been a while since Ive seen any enginneers from Raytheon, Boeing or GM come on here and begin asking questions. But they're in the US which has a proven track record of weapons production not NZ which has a proven track record of errrrr..... thats it wool and cheese production.
Oh, and production of emigrants to Australia.
hippy
Ex-Staff (retired)
It was however a Kiwi who concocted the DIY Cruise Missile so fair do's for the NZ engineering fraternity.
I'm sure others do have far better track records of weapon production, but to be honest, I'd prefer to live in a country which is able to make friends rather than enemies.
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
interesting thing about the diy cruise missle was that if the builder hadn't called it a "diy cruise missile" he probably would have been able to get it to the point of actaully launching it without 1 word from the authorities,
I agree dpg. I looked up the website and though it is shut down, lots of the components and parts are available for other things. Autonomous flight systems exist. Whether you use a pulse jet or turbine or prop system probably doesn't matter. If he had called it an 'autonomous system for logging CO2 concentrations at remote locations' and put the words 'global warming' in the website, he could have got a grant from the NZ government.
One wonders who NZ would want to attack anyway? The big island to the West?
One wonders who NZ would want to attack anyway? The big island to the West?
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demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
they can have tasmania....I agree dpg. I looked up the website and though it is shut down, lots of the components and parts are available for other things. Autonomous flight systems exist. Whether you use a pulse jet or turbine or prop system probably doesn't matter. If he had called it an 'autonomous system for logging CO2 concentrations at remote locations' and put the words 'global warming' in the website, he could have got a grant from the NZ government.
One wonders who NZ would want to attack anyway? The big island to the West?
"....I'd prefer to live in a country which is able to make friends rather than enemies..."
We'll, thats a nice thought Hippy. Although if we have a look at the sorts of countries in modern times the US has had as enemies I have to say Im glad the US has competent engineers and a thriving weapons industry. Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, Imperialist Japan, "IslamoFacist" Iran et al, Iraq ruled by a tyrant.
Could any tolerant, liberal,thinking, peace loving country "make friends" with these sorts of entities? Or like the Germans did to Brittain under Chamberlain would they use such a friendship as a interlude to prepare more fully for aggressive war.
Should the Americans say I'll be friends with you Adolf, and those Jews,Gypsies and Slavs you're gassing, well thats OK becasue our friendship is big enough to get over that. Saddam, you want to controll most of the worlds oil supply, thats OK we'll pay exorbitant prices for oil or freeze in the dark because afterall we're friends and friends make sacrifices for each other.
In my view the weapons industry is a legitimate one and without it our way of life wouldn't exist. Any young person who cuts their electronic engineering teeth on picaxe and then goes onto to work work in weapons R&D for a democratic country does a good thing in my view.
We'll, thats a nice thought Hippy. Although if we have a look at the sorts of countries in modern times the US has had as enemies I have to say Im glad the US has competent engineers and a thriving weapons industry. Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, Imperialist Japan, "IslamoFacist" Iran et al, Iraq ruled by a tyrant.
Could any tolerant, liberal,thinking, peace loving country "make friends" with these sorts of entities? Or like the Germans did to Brittain under Chamberlain would they use such a friendship as a interlude to prepare more fully for aggressive war.
Should the Americans say I'll be friends with you Adolf, and those Jews,Gypsies and Slavs you're gassing, well thats OK becasue our friendship is big enough to get over that. Saddam, you want to controll most of the worlds oil supply, thats OK we'll pay exorbitant prices for oil or freeze in the dark because afterall we're friends and friends make sacrifices for each other.
In my view the weapons industry is a legitimate one and without it our way of life wouldn't exist. Any young person who cuts their electronic engineering teeth on picaxe and then goes onto to work work in weapons R&D for a democratic country does a good thing in my view.
Whoa- the old Trans-Tasman ANZAC rivalry is building up here. As a lateral thinking peace loving #8 wire Kiwi I may however be able to spring MoonGoon's idea.
IMHO this consists of a PICAXE attachment to a super long range aerosol propelled spud gun,devised by Kiwi orchardists to shoot apples etc directly across the Tasman Sea (~2000 km) into Oz. (Fears of plant diseases have infamously restricted access of both NZ apples & other countries banana's into Australia- to the dismay of Aussie shoppers).
The electronics simply responds to the "fruit of the day" & adjusts the aerosol propellant charge accordingly. I'd say cheap(er) apples will be raining down on Dr_A in Adelaide any day soon, & for Brendan bananas (only ~$NZ 1.80 a kg here) will abound. Stan
IMHO this consists of a PICAXE attachment to a super long range aerosol propelled spud gun,devised by Kiwi orchardists to shoot apples etc directly across the Tasman Sea (~2000 km) into Oz. (Fears of plant diseases have infamously restricted access of both NZ apples & other countries banana's into Australia- to the dismay of Aussie shoppers).
The electronics simply responds to the "fruit of the day" & adjusts the aerosol propellant charge accordingly. I'd say cheap(er) apples will be raining down on Dr_A in Adelaide any day soon, & for Brendan bananas (only ~$NZ 1.80 a kg here) will abound. Stan
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