Is there a known problem with the AXE027 drivers and Windows 11?

T

Torben

New Member
Hi, I'm finding that the installation of the AXE027 drivers in Windows 11 simply fails. I've done this multiple time successfully in W10 and previous. But now when I point to the (extracted) folder with the AXE027 drivers, I get told that 'Windows was unable to install your AXE027 PIXAXE USB' and 'Windows could not find drivers for your device'. I've repeated this (too) many times now in case I'm being stupid. I don't think I am though.
Is this is a known problem...?
Torben
 
hippy

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
The only things I can suggest, accepting they may have been done already -

Ensure you are running Device Manager, not the Settings App which can at times look like Device Manger but isn't.

Ensure you are pointing Device Manager to the top-level folder, the one which contains the 'amd64' and 'i386' directories.

If PE6 is installed, try by pointing to the pre-included driver folder, usually -

C:\Program Files (x86)\Revolution Education\PICAXE Editor\USB Drivers\AXE027


What hardware do you have; is it a Microsoft Surface Pro, similar, or something else, and are you sure it's not an ARM architecture version ?
 
Gramps

Gramps

Senior Member
I just recently purchased a $139 Gateway laptop from online Walmart running Windows 11 and successfully loaded the drivers for the cable. Everything seems to be working perfectly.
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
Was it installed with "Core Isolation"/"Memory Integrity" disabled❓ (It's enabled by default in Windows 11, but 'Gateway' may have modified that.

(See Settings | Device Security | Core isolation - or use the search feature, to check)
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
Gramps said:
Memory integrity is turned off by default.
Click to expand...
On a 'plain-vanilla', default installation it's ON. However, 'Gateway' may well have created their own Deployment Kit, so that it's turned off on all their machines. I wonder why they've disabled a built-in security feature?
Microsoft said:
In most cases memory integrity is on by default in Windows 11, and can be turned on for Windows 10.
Click to expand...
Here's what it does.
 
Gramps

Gramps

Senior Member
Now that the AXE027 driver install is completed sounds like I ought to turn that "guard" on!🤔
 
P

papaof2

Senior Member
Another part of Microsoft's bid to control the world :-( "If it's not on our list, you don't need it."

If they truly did "Compatible with" configurations, telling the OS "Windows XP" would provide overrides for EVERYTHING NEEDED to be able to run vintage software without a problem. They don't care about you getting your work done, just about selling you another monthly subscription for office software or whatever.

Some bits of vintage software bypass much of the control structure of Win 10. WS_FTP95 - designed for Windows 95, still runs fine up through Win 10 but can't handle 100 character file names - works at such a low level that it simply bypasses most the ownership/security controls in Win 10 and lets you put any file wherever you want it. WS_FTP isn't as fast as FileZilla (on the same PC, transferring the same files) but the interface is more intuitive than FileZilla.
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
papaof2 said:
Another part of Microsoft's bid to control the world :-(
Click to expand...
I'd look at it as Quality Assurance!

The vast majority of the BSODs and system hangs that you will have seen over the years, were not caused by Microsoft's code, but by some 3rd party software that managed to overwrite something it shouldn't. Imposing coding standards on developers is good for users ;)

The software that's being discussed here, was released in March 2011 and certified for use on Windows 7. (Not Windows 8, 8.1, 10 or 11). FTDI have released 23 new versions of it since then, but they do not appear to have released a version that's passed WHQL certification for Windows 11. The FT232R's product page is full of broken links and none of the "Buy Online" buttons result in anything meaningful. It looks to me, like the end may be nigh!
 
K

kfjl

Member
PhilHornby said:
I'd look at it as Quality Assurance!

The vast majority of the BSODs and system hangs that you will have seen over the years, were not caused by Microsoft's code, but by some 3rd party software that managed to overwrite something it shouldn't. Imposing coding standards on developers is good for users ;)
Click to expand...
I'd look at it as taking the pee!
Who wrote the code that allowed 3rd party software to overwrite something it shouldn't?
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
kfjl said:
Who wrote the code that allowed 3rd party software to overwrite something it shouldn't?
Click to expand...
The minute an Operating System allows 3rd party privileged code to be run, there's a problem: that code effectively becomes part of the Operating System (and can therefore do what it wants). But disallowing it all together would have seriously impacted Windows & the 'IBM' PC's popularity. Either that, or massively increased costs, as 3rd party hardware suppliers waited for their drivers to be written & incorporated into the OS, by Microsoft.

The current strategy - using time-limited certificates, that are only issued for code that has been through Microsoft's 'stress test', is better than nothing - but personally, I'd lock it down further...

(and yes, I am a Microsoft fan-boy :p )
 
K

kfjl

Member
An Operating system should allow any software to run until that software tries to do something it shouldn't, then it should stop that software.
Windows stops itself. 🤭
I wonder how Torben is getting on...
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
kfjl said:
An Operating system should allow any software to run until that software tries to do something it shouldn't, then it should stop that software.
Click to expand...
The problem is, that the OS kernel and Device Drivers tend to need to inhabit the same Protection Ring. We've digressed somewhat 🙂 and I'm running out of knowledge of Windows Internals :unsure: (Windows NT's architect was also one of VAX/VMS's. I (used to) know a lot about VAX/VMS - helped by having access to the source code. But Windows 11 is now 30 years away from its NT starting point!)

As for Torben's immediate issue...

Personally, if I had to use an AXE027 on a Windows 11 PC today, I would use the latest, greatest drivers from the FTDI web site, and force the AXE027 to use them via the procedure given here in: Post #20

I would then change the PID to the default of 6001, using the AXE027 Programming Tool to avoid future problems. (You can't change the PID, until drivers of some kind have successfully accessed the AXE027).

This assumes that the latest FTDI drivers for Windows 10 work ok on Windows 11...
 
D

dennis

Member
I have given up an AXE027 installation on a Dell Inspiron Win11 because of the memory integrity issue. maybe this can be fixed but my level of knowledge is insufficient. Using an old PC is a nuisance though. I see this whole cable issue as being a barrier to a great system.
 
P

papaof2

Senior Member
Too much hysteria over "security" in parts of the business world and too little concern for keeping things that work functioning.

If Microsoft truly supported previous generations of Windows, then you could tell Win 11 to "Run this as XP" and it COULD handle anything XP could, regardless of memory "integrity". If they truly had memory "integrity", Win 11 would allocate space in which non-Windows-11-compliant software could run - in case Microsoft doesn't know how to do that, it's called a virtual machine ;-)

Anyone else who remembers using the various models of Palm handhelds? There was a search command that could find "walker" whether in contacts, documents, notes or whatever. When I needed security for my list of passwords on the Palm, I wrote my own (thought the commercial programs were just too expensive and also wrote a VB6 program to read that file under Windows and it still works under Win 10) so I only had to keep one copy current.
 
hippy

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
kfjl said:
Rev-Ed is the cause of all this trouble, it's time they came clean.
Click to expand...
I am quite sure we would disagree with your assessment.

As I understand it the AXE027 drivers work perfectly well with Windows 11 providing the options which prevent the drivers from working are not enabled. One can argue that it is therefore Microsoft to blame for this trouble in introducing those options, manufacturers or users to blame for enabling them.

If you go to a club you have regularly attended wearing the same clothing you have always worn but you are refused admission because the club has changed dress code rules; are you to blame for no longer being allowed in or are they ?

If a supermarket no longer stocks your favourite biscuits, does the blame for no longer being able to enjoy your favourite biscuit fall on you or the supermarket ?

There are no absolute nor simple answers, it all depends upon what weight one puts on different aspects of the argument. One might conclude neither are to blame, one is to blame but not the other, or both are to blame, equally or to some degree. You may conclude one way, someone else may conclude another way.
 
PhilHornby

PhilHornby

Senior Member
Do you have a view on the issue I raised in Post #13 - namely that the FT232R's time might be drawing to a close. Do Rev Ed (or the manufacturer of the AXE027) have sufficient stocks for the foreseeable future? (or maybe there's a huge stockpile of AXE027?).

I'm of the opinion that the AXE027 (whatever components implement it), is an important part of the Picaxe ecosystem Though one can implement a DIY version, there is nothing like having a known, working, supported interface - for when things are going awry. (I have two).
 
K

kfjl

Member
hippy said:
I am quite sure we would disagree with your assessment.
Click to expand...
I thought you might.

I think everyone knows by now that the AXE027's PID is a problem. It's not listed in the FTDI driver.

Who is responsible for the PID and who is responsible for it still not being listed?

Not Microsoft.
 
W

wapo54001

Senior Member
hippy said:
I am quite sure we would disagree with your assessment.

As I understand it the AXE027 drivers work perfectly well with Windows 11 providing the options which prevent the drivers from working are not enabled. One can argue that it is therefore Microsoft to blame for this trouble in introducing those options, manufacturers or users to blame for enabling them.
Click to expand...
Who is responsible for the PID and who is responsible for it still not being listed?

Does a proper PID solve all issues? If so, who is responsible for it?
 
K

kfjl

Member
wapo54001 said:
Does a proper PID solve all issues? If so, who is responsible for it?
Click to expand...
I'm a linux user, I just plug in the cable and it works (with a PID of 6001)
I don't have a Windows computer but from what was said in post #24 here changing the PID seems to work for Windows too. Unfortunately, according to PhilHornby in post #17 of the present thread: "You can't change the PID, until drivers of some kind have successfully accessed the AXE027" 🙃
 
D

dennis

Member
Great to see some action on this. I use an old PC to avoid the issue but am looking forward to a successful Win11 installation. I realise these things take time, unexpected snags etc etc but do you have a guess for the timescale ?
 
K

kfjl

Member
dennis said:
Great to see some action on this. I use an old PC to avoid the issue but am looking forward to a successful Win11 installation. I realise these things take time, unexpected snags etc etc but do you have a guess for the timescale ?
Click to expand...
My guess for the timescale, in your case, would be something like a quarter of an hour.
Or if you don't want to change the PID, maybe something like a quarter of a year...😴
 
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