Failed download cable?

Tvmender

Active member
Hi All

I am assuming that the legacy serial download cable contains something like the FTDI driver hardware for communication in the D connector itself?

I think I may have just nuked my cable by accident. I have ran the test program within the programming environment with no luck.

Thanks all!
 

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
I am assuming that the legacy serial download cable contains something like the FTDI driver hardware for communication in the D connector itself?
If it's an AXE026 9-way D to jack plug, or an even older AXE025 9-way D to a three pin header plug, then there are no electronics in those cables.

If a USB010, USB to 9-way D, then I believe that includes a Prolific chip rather than FTDI.
 

Tvmender

Active member
Thanks Hippy.

I'm worried I may have damaged my serial port.

I'm assuming a USB to serial adapter would work?
 

inglewoodpete

Senior Member
I'm worried I may have damaged my serial port.

I'm assuming a USB to serial adapter would work?
First, RS232 serial ports are usually pretty tough. The input side should withstand in excess of +/- 12volts. The output side can handle a short circuit, at least. I'd check continuity of the cable's send, receive and two ground wires.

Then, the USB to serial cable. Most work but some don't. An AXE027 cable from Rev-Ed will definitely work once the drivers are loaded. A PL2302 cable shoud also work; likewise CP2102 based adapters.
 

Tvmender

Active member
Thanks all!

I'm pretty sure I've nuked the port by accident. I am going to try my USB to serial adapter tonight, failing that I will invest in a new download USB cable.
 

Flenser

Senior Member
I'm pretty sure I've nuked the port by accident
My suggestion is to try and isolate where the problem is.
First check whether the USB port is damaged by plugging in something else. For example a USB Flash Drive. If it works then there is nothing wrong with the USB port on your PC.
If you can't use anything at all on your port then it would indicate that you won't be able to use it with a USB to serial cable.

I can confirm that an ATEN USB to serial adapter does work!
Second check whether your PC+Windows has any problem with the ATEN USB to serial adapter. Plug it into a USB port that works and the go into device manager.
Run devmgmt.msc and check under the "Ports (COM & LPT)" item.
This screen capture shows how my CP210x USB to serial adapter appears:
If Windows has detected that the USB device is not working than it will show the yellow triangular warning symbol with an exclamation mark.
25556
 

papaof2

Senior Member
Guess they just don't make serial ports as robust as they once did. I worked in a multi-story telecom building and there were computer terminals (all RS-232 and mostly 25 wire cables - I know, back when men rode to work on dinosaurs and parking was free if you'd shovel your spot and the one on each side of it ;-)

There was sufficient imbalance in the neutral of the building's power distribution that I occasionally drew an arc when connecting or disconnecting the grounded shell of one of those cables on a terminal that was several floors away from its serving computer (mostly DEC 11/70). I don't think today's serial ports would survive that abuse...
 

Tvmender

Active member
My suggestion is to try and isolate where the problem is.
First check whether the USB port is damaged by plugging in something else. For example a USB Flash Drive. If it works then there is nothing wrong with the USB port on your PC.
If you can't use anything at all on your port then it would indicate that you won't be able to use it with a USB to serial cable.


Second check whether your PC+Windows has any problem with the ATEN USB to serial adapter. Plug it into a USB port that works and the go into device manager.
Run devmgmt.msc and check under the "Ports (COM & LPT)" item.
This screen capture shows how my CP210x USB to serial adapter appears:
If Windows has detected that the USB device is not working than it will show the yellow triangular warning symbol with an exclamation mark.
View attachment 25556
Hi Flenser

The USB adapter is all good, working great. I have definitely nuked my serial port somehow.

I have a feeling that I didn't remove a key jumper on my circuit which has reverse powered the port. Its definitely kaput.
 

Tvmender

Active member
Guess they just don't make serial ports as robust as they once did. I worked in a multi-story telecom building and there were computer terminals (all RS-232 and mostly 25 wire cables - I know, back when men rode to work on dinosaurs and parking was free if you'd shovel your spot and the one on each side of it ;-)

There was sufficient imbalance in the neutral of the building's power distribution that I occasionally drew an arc when connecting or disconnecting the grounded shell of one of those cables on a terminal that was several floors away from its serving computer (mostly DEC 11/70). I don't think today's serial ports would survive that abuse...
Things definitely are not as robust as they used to be ,I think its a design requirement to make sure it breaks! Although to be honest, this was completely my fault! haha!
 

papaof2

Senior Member
Those blasted jumpers and DIP switches may have been the death of a lot of electronics :-(

I was always appreciative when someone said "That new drive's bad. Musta gotten banged too hard during shipment. You want it?" because it was almost always the jumper or DIP settings that were the problem. I really didn't care if I had 3 flavors of drive control cards and drives covering 4 generations of hard drive technology - I long ago had an inexpensive 2TB of storage (it was an old tower case with shelves for MANY hard drives). I used that machine for backing up other PCs (mostly laptops) and to ensure I had a backup of whatever my current project was. Yes, it was slow - but having a backup is more important than how fast you can restore from that backup.
 

Buzby

Senior Member
Things definitely are not as robust as they used to be ,I think its a design requirement to make sure it breaks !
Yes to the first statement, no to the second.

Before the 60's a mechanical lever mechanism, maybe in a window opener, or part of a lawnmower, would be made of thick steel plates. This was because the designer knew a thick steel plate would do the job.

Roll on the years, and computers start to be used to optimise designs. The aforementioned lever is reduced to a thin aluminium sheet, with a some optimised corrugations to give it strength. This 'strength' is just as strong as the thick steel plate, but only along one axis. As the part is not expected to have any stress on any other axis it will last just as long as the steel plate version.

The manufacturer has saved cost on materials. The part is lighter, so cheaper to transport. End result is good allround.

But in the real world, ( not the computer controlled lab environment ), things go a bit off track. Maybe a screw comes loose, or a toddler tries to turn a handle the wrong way. Toddlers are strong !.

Now the lever gets stresses where it wasn't designed to, and it crumples like tissue paper.

In the electronics world we have the scourge of the tantalum capacitor. When these were introduced in the 70's they offered very small size, and with no liquid electrolyte were expected to last forever. They had one drawback, they couldn't withstand overvoltage.

Billions of them went into every kind of domestic and commercial electronic device possible. These devices are built to a price, and it's just not feasible to build in every protection against faults or abuse. A fuse fails in order to protect the upstream supply, but downstream it might cause a transient spike. Or a poorly designed SMPS might occasionally create a HV transient that is too short to notice, and won't have any effect on the circuit it is supplying. Or the device might be subject to an ESD event, again no problem for most of the component.

But the tantalum capacitor sees the transient, and starts to go bad. It might take years for the effect to become apparent, but when it does it can go with a bang, literally. An exploding tant can burn a hole in the PCB !.

So again we have a component that fails because it was exposed to stresses beyond it's design specification.

Modern machines don't fail by design, but by being just 'on the limit' of what is expected of them.
 

papaof2

Senior Member
I think that 'on the limit' might translate to "just barely good enough to work" ;-)

The Honda walk-behind mower uses a 1.2AH 12 volt AGM battery for starting - and it doesn't last one season. The key is on the ring with the key to the equipment shed but it's easier to assume the battery is too weak to start the mower and the mower usually starts on one pull. If my aging body needs to resurrect the electric start, I have some 3.8AH LiFePO4 cells that are rated at 28 amps for 30 seconds. Put 4 of those in 4s1p with a 30 amp BMS and I might have a lifetime battery for that mower ;-) (Those cells were new surplus and less than $3 each delivered. I bought 3 packs of 16 and have been replacing UPS batteries as they die - many UPS units use a 12 volt, 7AH+/- battery. Those LFP in 4s2p are a good replacement. Their low voltage curoff is 10.0V but the UPS low voltage cutoff is often 10.7 or 11 volts so the UPS can't kill the LFP battery.)

Toddlers are strong, and one thing that makes the design of "child proof" medicine containers difficult is that some six-year-olds may be stronger than their mothers so a greater-than-six-year-old level of dexterity has to be included with the proper level of strength in the process of opening those containers.

I remember the first flathead V8 engine I tore down to rebuild. There were no piston "rings": the longest piece of piston "ring" was maybe a 2 inch arc. That engine burned a bit of oil but it still started and ran! I've also rebuilt OHV and OHC, but none as badly abused as that flathead and still running. True tales like that keep the "Things used to be made better" mantra alive - car engines were made to wider tolerances because that was what could be produced at a competitive price. They also built serious aircraft engines in that timeframe that were to much higher tolerances and that lasted much longer - but very few could have afforded a new Ford with a Rolls Merlin engine ;-)
 

Buzby

Senior Member
... Toddlers are strong, and one thing that makes the design of "child proof" medicine containers difficult is that some six-year-olds may be stronger than their mothers ...
A bit OT, but a good story ....

When our daughter was about 6 we were in a white goods shop, looking to buy a new cooker.
The sales assistant saw we had a small child, so was busy demonstrating the child-proof controls on the latest cookers.
Meanwhile, our daughter has gone behind the assistant, and is busy pulling the control knobs completely off the nearest machine.
We interrupted the assistant's flow with a tap on his shoulder, and pointed behind him.
The look on his face was a sight to behold, and he was lost for words.

Obviously, the designer had put a lot of effort into making sure a child would not be able turn the control knobs without knowing the trick, but had completely overlooked that a child might just pull, even if the label says push !.
 

papaof2

Senior Member
Yup! We had two with that level of curiosity - both girls, one of whom could wear the knees out of "double-knee" jeans faster than any boy on the block. That curiosity was a good thing - both girls ended up with Masters degrees in their fields of interest: one engineer, one librarian.
 

bpowell

Senior Member
Obviously, the designer had put a lot of effort into making sure a child would not be able turn the control knobs without knowing the trick, but had completely overlooked that a child might just pull, even if the label says push !.
But, it sounds like it failed in a safe fashion ... which is good design. If they had the knobs in their hands and the gas was running, or the cook-top turned on, then there'd be an issue!
 
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