It probably costs more to do this than it does to make the right part in the first place.
http://tinyurl.com/26em8eq
http://tinyurl.com/26em8eq
Economizing
- Thread starter Jaguarjoe
- Start date
westaust55
Moderator
@JJ,
Very true - part of the "There I fixed it" mentality for some.
As a suggestion/thought, why not just add a small photo in your thread rather than all the tinyURL links.
I personally do not like links other than to manufacturers site because I come across so many broken links - often several a day (already one for today).
Even with Manufacturers websites it can become a pain down the track finding data on their site when something has become obsolete. Often end up locate on a database archive or some obscure site and then download and add to my own archive.
Very true - part of the "There I fixed it" mentality for some.
As a suggestion/thought, why not just add a small photo in your thread rather than all the tinyURL links.
I personally do not like links other than to manufacturers site because I come across so many broken links - often several a day (already one for today).
Even with Manufacturers websites it can become a pain down the track finding data on their site when something has become obsolete. Often end up locate on a database archive or some obscure site and then download and add to my own archive.
I'm sure this image, or very similar, was posted a while ago.
When it (or very similar) was mentioned before I'm sure it was described as a cheap capacitor bought from an anonymous vendor from you-know-where.
I'm afraid that if punters persist in buying the cheapest then it will encourage people (mainly from you-know-where) to make and profit out of the current fettish for cheap-as-possible-and-sod-the-quality.
In many cases not only do you "get what you pay for" but also "you get what you deserve".
And then some people buy the cheapest tackiest nonsense from who-knows-where and when it gives trouble they come here for hours of free advice.
It is the vendor's responsibility to provide technical backup ... which really gets my back up (haha!).
End-Rant (Temporarily)
When it (or very similar) was mentioned before I'm sure it was described as a cheap capacitor bought from an anonymous vendor from you-know-where.
I'm afraid that if punters persist in buying the cheapest then it will encourage people (mainly from you-know-where) to make and profit out of the current fettish for cheap-as-possible-and-sod-the-quality.
In many cases not only do you "get what you pay for" but also "you get what you deserve".
And then some people buy the cheapest tackiest nonsense from who-knows-where and when it gives trouble they come here for hours of free advice.
It is the vendor's responsibility to provide technical backup ... which really gets my back up (haha!).
End-Rant (Temporarily
)
slimplynth
Senior Member
like the cargo jet grounded in Europe for having a slightly less than legit repair on one of it's engines, when will they learn?
"It's sommat or nothing san, strap it up.."
"but we're all out of straps"
"Then improvise san"
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/chinese_air1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/4/aft/6007/afv/topic/Default.aspx&usg=__pPHrT1mDsk5bAys8sdpaLRv-Bc0=&h=435&w=580&sz=78&hl=en&start=4&itbs=1&tbnid=1bTgdTUZZE1llM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=134&prev=/images?q=chinese+passenger+jet+%2B+turbine+%2B+straps&hl=en&gbv=2&tbs=isch:1
edit: No longer 100% certain this is a true story... hmm
"It's sommat or nothing san, strap it up.."
"but we're all out of straps"
"Then improvise san"
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/chinese_air1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/4/aft/6007/afv/topic/Default.aspx&usg=__pPHrT1mDsk5bAys8sdpaLRv-Bc0=&h=435&w=580&sz=78&hl=en&start=4&itbs=1&tbnid=1bTgdTUZZE1llM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=134&prev=/images?q=chinese+passenger+jet+%2B+turbine+%2B+straps&hl=en&gbv=2&tbs=isch:1
edit: No longer 100% certain this is a true story... hmm
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This, as Jaguarjoe points out, cost more to make than the original can. It seems unlikely it is a "cost cutting" scam. There is probably a better reason - like it is an aftermarket repair part that is designed to fit a specific space.
Or not, electrolytic specs are usually very wide like +200% / -30%.
I've had a "computer grade" cap similar to that. Huge can with large screw terminals - but way too light. I cut it open and found a printed circuit board with three smaller caps on it - and it was well made - molded plastic base to support the board and copper braid making connections to the terminals - obviously expensive to manufacture by hand.
Or not, electrolytic specs are usually very wide like +200% / -30%.
I've had a "computer grade" cap similar to that. Huge can with large screw terminals - but way too light. I cut it open and found a printed circuit board with three smaller caps on it - and it was well made - molded plastic base to support the board and copper braid making connections to the terminals - obviously expensive to manufacture by hand.
Andrew Cowan
Senior Member
I read an article a while ago on repairing vintage radios - they used tricks like this to keep the radio looking authentic.
A
A
This, as Jaguarjoe points out, cost more to make than the original can. It seems unlikely it is a "cost cutting" scam. There is probably a better reason - like it is an aftermarket repair part that is designed to fit a specific space.
Or not, electrolytic specs are usually very wide like +200% / -30%.
I had a "computer grade" cap similar to that. Huge can with large screw terminals - but way too light. Curiosity prevailed. I cut it open and found a printed circuit board with three smaller caps on it - and it was well made - molded plastic base to support the board and copper braid making connections to the terminals - obviously expensive to manufacture with some hand soldering involved.
Or not, electrolytic specs are usually very wide like +200% / -30%.
I had a "computer grade" cap similar to that. Huge can with large screw terminals - but way too light. Curiosity prevailed. I cut it open and found a printed circuit board with three smaller caps on it - and it was well made - molded plastic base to support the board and copper braid making connections to the terminals - obviously expensive to manufacture with some hand soldering involved.
Say it again Flooby... 3rd time lucky...
"...like it is an aftermarket repair part that is designed to fit a specific space"
- do you really believe that?
External can: 50V 6800uF
Internal cap: 35V 2200uF
IF it was an aftermarket repair SURELY you would choose the same value?
And if you were fitting a smaller cap into a bigger PCB space why would you go to this effort?
But, wait a moment, how much does a 50V 6800uF cap retail for?
And how much can you buy those Rubycons for in bulk?
Potential Economics:
Buy: 30p
Sell: Farnell >£3 each.
Even on SuckerBay these can be over £2 each.
So, even if you pay your man £1 to press some tin and solder, you'd still make money.
The simple fact that the caps are completely wrong value makes me think the worst. (I am very cycnical by nature and can't stand cheap crap).
Anyway, in any event, I shan't be buying "master" capacitors, so no probs. Sorry, but I have to say "Tough Titty" to anyone buying cheap unknown anonymous stuff from plonkerBay.
"...like it is an aftermarket repair part that is designed to fit a specific space"
- do you really believe that?
External can: 50V 6800uF
Internal cap: 35V 2200uF
IF it was an aftermarket repair SURELY you would choose the same value?
And if you were fitting a smaller cap into a bigger PCB space why would you go to this effort?
But, wait a moment, how much does a 50V 6800uF cap retail for?
And how much can you buy those Rubycons for in bulk?
Potential Economics:
Buy: 30p
Sell: Farnell >£3 each.
Even on SuckerBay these can be over £2 each.
So, even if you pay your man £1 to press some tin and solder, you'd still make money.
The simple fact that the caps are completely wrong value makes me think the worst. (I am very cycnical by nature and can't stand cheap crap).
Anyway, in any event, I shan't be buying "master" capacitors, so no probs. Sorry, but I have to say "Tough Titty" to anyone buying cheap unknown anonymous stuff from plonkerBay.
Not just to be contrary, but there is another point of view.
Sometimes, name brand merchandise from a reputable distributor is exactly the same product made in the same factory by the same people who are making the cheap stuff. The only difference is the price, a difference based primarily on markup. I have been in factories that made products for large "reputable" companies, but when there was slack time, the factories ran the same product down the same lines with the same QC and sold it for a lot less than the "reputable" retailer.
So, yes, I am guilty of not wanting to overpay. And yes, I have bought some stuff on the web that was crap. But I'm also the guy that bought name brand temperature sensors from a reputable distributor that turned out to be either counterfeit, mismarked, or both. And neither the distributor, nor the manufacturer ever gave me a straight answer. Unfortunately, in today's global marketplace, it really is caveat emptor no matter where you get it or how much you pay.
Sometimes, name brand merchandise from a reputable distributor is exactly the same product made in the same factory by the same people who are making the cheap stuff. The only difference is the price, a difference based primarily on markup. I have been in factories that made products for large "reputable" companies, but when there was slack time, the factories ran the same product down the same lines with the same QC and sold it for a lot less than the "reputable" retailer.
So, yes, I am guilty of not wanting to overpay. And yes, I have bought some stuff on the web that was crap. But I'm also the guy that bought name brand temperature sensors from a reputable distributor that turned out to be either counterfeit, mismarked, or both. And neither the distributor, nor the manufacturer ever gave me a straight answer. Unfortunately, in today's global marketplace, it really is caveat emptor no matter where you get it or how much you pay.
get the original cap
Hippy, I totally agree with you on this. To put a 35v cap in place of a 50v;
welllll, you might as well get out the wallet cause you're going to need it
the moment you turn ON the power. Why? What if the Bridge is putting
out 44v? See what I mean. Also, 6800uF wasn't something the engineers "went with" when they design the circuit. It's a formula, not a GUESS!
Say it again Flooby... 3rd time lucky...
"...like it is an aftermarket repair part that is designed to fit a specific space"
- do you really believe that?
External can: 50V 6800uF
Internal cap: 35V 2200uF
IF it was an aftermarket repair SURELY you would choose the same value?
And if you were fitting a smaller cap into a bigger PCB space why would you go to this effort?
But, wait a moment, how much does a 50V 6800uF cap retail for?
And how much can you buy those Rubycons for in bulk?
Potential Economics:
Buy: 30p
Sell: Farnell >£3 each.
Even on SuckerBay these can be over £2 each.
So, even if you pay your man £1 to press some tin and solder, you'd still make money.
The simple fact that the caps are completely wrong value makes me think the worst. (I am very cycnical by nature and can't stand cheap crap).
Anyway, in any event, I shan't be buying "master" capacitors, so no probs. Sorry, but I have to say "Tough Titty" to anyone buying cheap unknown anonymous stuff from plonkerBay.
Hippy, I totally agree with you on this. To put a 35v cap in place of a 50v;
welllll, you might as well get out the wallet cause you're going to need it
the moment you turn ON the power. Why? What if the Bridge is putting
out 44v? See what I mean. Also, 6800uF wasn't something the engineers "went with" when they design the circuit. It's a formula, not a GUESS!
I totally agree on value for money and if the same thing/service is 50p cheaper from down the road then go down the road.
There are differences between 'cheap&nasty' , 'rip-off' and a reasonable price for a quality product - and, in some cases, the support you get aftersales.
If a well known distributor is selling (probably unwittingly) counterfeit stuff then you tell them and demand a refund.
If it is unwitting then they may thank you.
If it is witting then they may go into denial.
If they fail you then you report it to Trading Standards (or equivalent).
If they fail then you threaten them with legal action.
If that fails then you report it to the genuine manufacturer who may wish to revise their trade relationship.
If that fails then you put them on the News at Ten or blog it all over the place (if you are in the right then you are safe).
You must NEVER be fobbed off by anyone.
"Unfortunately, in today's global marketplace, it really is caveat emptor no matter where you get it or how much you pay."
- sorry, I can't quite agree. I deal with a few big Distributors in UK and USA that have been 100% reliable and trustworthy over 10 years of trading.
Always best quality brand names - never the cheapest. Fantastic support and warranty response.
If they sold dodgey stuff then it only takes a few people to say things in the right places to ruin their reputation.
Reputation = profit , so a proper distributor/retailer will do anything to avoid bad publicity.
If you are disrespected then you should never bend over and take it.
If you buy from 'other places' then, as you say Caveat Emptor - and sometimes 'tough titty'.
There are differences between 'cheap&nasty' , 'rip-off' and a reasonable price for a quality product - and, in some cases, the support you get aftersales.
If a well known distributor is selling (probably unwittingly) counterfeit stuff then you tell them and demand a refund.
If it is unwitting then they may thank you.
If it is witting then they may go into denial.
If they fail you then you report it to Trading Standards (or equivalent).
If they fail then you threaten them with legal action.
If that fails then you report it to the genuine manufacturer who may wish to revise their trade relationship.
If that fails then you put them on the News at Ten or blog it all over the place (if you are in the right then you are safe).
You must NEVER be fobbed off by anyone.
"Unfortunately, in today's global marketplace, it really is caveat emptor no matter where you get it or how much you pay."
- sorry, I can't quite agree. I deal with a few big Distributors in UK and USA that have been 100% reliable and trustworthy over 10 years of trading.
Always best quality brand names - never the cheapest. Fantastic support and warranty response.
If they sold dodgey stuff then it only takes a few people to say things in the right places to ruin their reputation.
Reputation = profit , so a proper distributor/retailer will do anything to avoid bad publicity.
If you are disrespected then you should never bend over and take it.
If you buy from 'other places' then, as you say Caveat Emptor - and sometimes 'tough titty'.
BeanieBots
Moderator
"Unfortunately, in today's global marketplace, it really is caveat emptor no matter where you get it or how much you pay."
I don't quite agree either.
If it's important, you quality check the supplier/manufacturer yourself.
If they are reputable, they are also liable.
If they will not accept liability, then go somewhere else.
I don't quite agree either.
If it's important, you quality check the supplier/manufacturer yourself.
If they are reputable, they are also liable.
If they will not accept liability, then go somewhere else.
And you check the parts. That's exactly what I mean when I say "caveat emptor."
But you'll soon find a reliable supplier (hopefully).
So, "caveat emptor" changes in to "Happy Emptor" - that's why I couldn't agree with the implied permanent Caveat Emptor status.
Sure, if you're buying stuff from fly-by-night cheapo suppliers then CE applies. But I don't and never will.
If you find a good supplier, sure you may pay more, but you'll get the help and service for that money.
If Farnell, Rs, Digikey charged Ebay prices then they wouldn't be able to afford to post 10zillion data sheets and have a techy service to answer our questions. Instead, like a lot of people do, the customer would have to rely on a Forum-load of kind-hearted people who patiently answer questions for zip.
So, "caveat emptor" changes in to "Happy Emptor" - that's why I couldn't agree with the implied permanent Caveat Emptor status.
Sure, if you're buying stuff from fly-by-night cheapo suppliers then CE applies. But I don't and never will.
If you find a good supplier, sure you may pay more, but you'll get the help and service for that money.
If Farnell, Rs, Digikey charged Ebay prices then they wouldn't be able to afford to post 10zillion data sheets and have a techy service to answer our questions. Instead, like a lot of people do, the customer would have to rely on a Forum-load of kind-hearted people who patiently answer questions for zip.
fernando_g
Senior Member
People can cheat ISO9000 or for that matter, any other safety or regulatory agency.
BeanieBots
Moderator
It is probably the most abused intention out there.
ISO accreditation is a statement that you have a process and that you follow that process. The "assumption" being that your product will be consistant.
However, there is nothing which stipulates that your process should yeald a consistant product.
If your policy says that you ALWAYS buy your parts from the cheapest eBay supplier, as long as you ALWAYS do that, you will probably be ISO compliant.
"Dell’s supply chain had always stood out as one of its important assets. The company kept costs low by limiting its inventory and squeezing suppliers."
Two more examples of why I believe that the guiding rule in today's global marketplace should be caveat emptor: Dell and Nichicon. Or as the Russians might say, "Доверяй, но проверяй."
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