35$ Xprotolab Breadboard Scope

[fritz42_male]

http://tronixstuff.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/the-worlds-smallest-oscilloscope/

Not sure what happened to my previous post as the thread starter is there with nothing in it.

I want to get 1 or 2 of the above. The manufacturer is currently out of stock but you can register to be updated when he has new stock. If there are any Australians out there who are interested in these then maybe we can bundle an order together to save on US postage costs. Please message me if interested.

 

[MartinM57]

That's pretty amazing - I watched the video and as it went along I thought "yeah, it's OK but not very useful for precise and easy measurements via say horizontal and vertical cursors" ... and then it showed them!

 

[hippy]

@ fritz42_male : Not sure what went wrong with the Forum server / software for your earlier posting so sorry about that. We'll keep an eye on things but it is a rare occurance.

 

[fritz42_male]

@ fritz42_male : Not sure what went wrong with the Forum server / software for your earlier posting so sorry about that. We'll keep an eye on things but it is a rare occurance.

Not good enough - I expected a bug report at the very least!!!

Seriously though, I think it was a glitch in either the forum server or the link from Aus - the forum was running very slowly earlier and I was having to refresh a few times even for stuff to come up.

Perth had a storm in the hills yesterday and I know it took out a number of DSLAMS in various exchanges so it may just be an Internet thing.

 

[fritz42_male]

That's pretty amazing - I watched the video and as it went along I thought "yeah, it's OK but not very useful for precise and easy measurements via say horizontal and vertical cursors" ... and then it showed them!

Yes and the price is amazing. Even with the poor pound in the doldrums it is amazingly good value for money (at least until I get my hands on a DSO Quad). Luckily for me, I'm now in Oz where we have passed the US$

 

[westaust55]

@ fritz42_male : Not sure what went wrong with the Forum server / software for your earlier posting so sorry about that. We'll keep an eye on things but it is a rare occurance.

Dr_Acula suffered a similar problem a day or two back.
I saw two posts by him which were empty. Later both were deleted and one with the desired content became available to view by forum visitors.

 

[womai]

Yeah, cute little toy. Emphasis to equal parts on "cute", "little" and "toy". I love it when someone pitches 8 bits of vertical resolution (that is 256 steps) and the displayed waveform is 16 pixels high (equivalent to a whopping 4 bits of true - observable - resolution) Even if you blow up the waveform to full screen height it's still only 64 pixels = 6 bits, not 8.

The second reason why it is a toy - after about an hour you will be screaming in frustration since every parameter change requires multiple presses on some tiny pushbuttons to get into/out of several menu layers, plus a number of button presses to actually change the parameter. Just not very practical for real work (as opposed to a well-staged Youtube demo video).

Again, I admire the engineering that went into this thing. Cute, lots of functions, clearly a work of love. If you like to play with it, the price is pretty awesome, so no reason not to get one. But it's a toy, not a true test instrument. I would be less harsh in my assessment had the thing a PC link (the USB port seems to be purely for power supply?) so you could drive it from a PC based application with a mouse and a big display as an alternative. In that case you could do away with the OLED display and cut the price by another $5-$10. Now THAT would make it a truly usable instrument in my eyes...

</RANT>

Wolfgang

 

[fernando_g]

For the price, it is an astounding good buy......

However.....320 Khz analog bandwidth also falls in the "toy" category, unless one is only measuring sinewaves.

 

[cdngunner]

As someone once told me ....horses for courses.....

A lot of people here build "picaxe toys", still a good learning experiences.

I am planning on getting one just to trouble shoot coms, which it looks like it will do nicely.

 

[fritz42_male]

Agreed it is never goint to replace a proper scope nor even a Dso nano but i can probably find quite a few uses for it.

Next scope will probably be a pc usb type or a refurb Tektronix

 

[hippy]

It's always difficult to quantify these type of scopes as to whether they are mere toys or the perfect test gear; it really depends on what one wants to do.

Plenty of times I've wanted to see 'what's happening' with little interest in the actual voltages or accurate timing or even slew rates of signals nor any need to see exactly what the signal really looks like; particularly for serial, SPI, IR and PWM type signals. It's more a case of being able to quickly check if what is present matches expectations; idling at the right polarity, the bits high and low where expected and in the right order and for roughly the right length of time.

Admittedly, if they are not, or it's needed to see the signal in greater detail something more capable ( and more expensive ) is needed, but it still has good value in itself. It's really a question of, being cheap enough, does it do enough to make it of value in its own right.

 

[stocky6409]

What a fantastic little beast - perfect for a few things I do where I just need to monitor some slow square waves and end up loosing my other scopes for days on end to the task.

Anyone bought one yet??

 

[Marcwolf]

I Agree.. Horses for Courses.
I have 2 scopes. A DSO Nano that I keep next to my PicAxe breadboard, and my Dual Channel 40Mhz CRO on the main bench.

The DSO is great as a "Do I have Some Signal and is it approx right", and the main CRO is for "What IS going on"

I have a few other tools like the Bus Pirate and the Logic Sniffer (Both from Sparkfun) Whch also serves the same purpose.

One of the most frustating things when developing bits and pieces is the question "Do I Have A Signal There!!!"
Is a Video Chip putting our a signal. Do I get Serial Data being send. Is there A Clock Pulse. All of these can bring a project to a holt.. But atleast getting an good indication that something is working goes a long way to tracking propblems.

Take Care
Dave

 

[John West]

Yeah, cute little toy. Emphasis to equal parts on "cute", "little" and "toy". I love it when someone pitches 8 bits of vertical resolution (that is 256 steps) and the displayed waveform is 16 pixels high (equivalent to a whopping 4 bits of true - observable - resolution) Even if you blow up the waveform to full screen height it's still only 64 pixels = 6 bits, not 8.

The second reason why it is a toy - after about an hour you will be screaming in frustration since every parameter change requires multiple presses on some tiny pushbuttons to get into/out of several menu layers, plus a number of button presses to actually change the parameter. Just not very practical for real work (as opposed to a well-staged Youtube demo video).

Again, I admire the engineering that went into this thing. Cute, lots of functions, clearly a work of love. If you like to play with it, the price is pretty awesome, so no reason not to get one. But it's a toy, not a true test instrument. I would be less harsh in my assessment had the thing a PC link (the USB port seems to be purely for power supply?) so you could drive it from a PC based application with a mouse and a big display as an alternative. In that case you could do away with the OLED display and cut the price by another $5-$10. Now THAT would make it a truly usable instrument in my eyes...


</RANT>

Wolfgang

I agree entirely with Wolfgang. I'm sure he'll soon show 'em how its done right.

 

[John West]

<snip>
I would be less harsh in my assessment had the thing a PC link (the USB port seems to be purely for power supply?) so you could drive it from a PC based application with a mouse and a big display as an alternative. In that case you could do away with the OLED display and cut the price by another $5-$10. Now THAT would make it a truly usable instrument in my eyes...

</RANT>

Wolfgang

That sounds a lot like a 'scope someone we know has in the works right now.

 

[hippy]

As wordpress seem to be having a problem today, a direct link to the actual product ...

http://gabotronics.com/development-boards/xmega-xprotolab.htm

Looking at the schematic that has the USB fully wired so presumably it could be added as an enhancement. One could also perhaps take the function generator pin as a serial out link. The USB and Logic Analyser pins could all be used if not needed to serve their pre-defined purposes.

Like any programmable hardware it can be completely re-flashed to be something else. Though often easier to say than do. In this case it is nothing more than a micro, an LCD, essential hardware to make it run plus some op-amps and the software supplied which makes it a scope and all. The "wow" comes in supplying it as a a cheap kit and someone having taken the time to write the software.

Note that the source code isn't fully open, doesn't include the oscilloscope, but it would be an ideal platform for building one's own scope or logic analyser with self-contained display. Or a tiny terminal emulator or graphical interface.

 

[fritz42_male]

Gabriel (who runs Gabotronics) reckons he'll have a delivery of 500 in about 2 or 3 weeks.

 

[womai]

Looking at the schematic that has the USB fully wired so presumably it could be added as an enhancement.

...

Note that the source code isn't fully open, doesn't include the oscilloscope, but it would be an ideal platform for building one's own scope or logic analyser with self-contained display. Or a tiny terminal emulator or graphical interface.

Yeah, but for a device like this the firmware (and PC software if hooked up to a PC) is roughly 80% of the total effort, if not more. I speak from own experience (DPScope). So not having the software source means I consider USB connection to be non-existent except as a power supply. Because "adding" USB connectivity to the scope will mean a complete rewrite from scratch of the scope firmware, and a development from scratch of the PC software.

That said, it is great to see the schematic published. Things I noticed:

- the AWG samples at 1 MSa/sec, but the output bandwidth is given as just 44.1 kHz. That's a pity. The probable reason is the very simplistic low-pass filtering - just a single stage, which results in very gradual drop-off of -20dB/decade - so a lot of oversampling is required. Adding a better filter (~6-8 pole Chebycheff, needing 3-4 op-amp stages) would allow output bandwidths of up to ~400 kHz without any increase in the sample rate. Could be added as a little external board, powered from the main board.

- the designer suggests adding a 9 MOhm resistor to extend the input voltage range. But you'll need to be VERY carful about any stray capacitance - even a little bit will shunt out your 9 MOhm for higher frequencies.

- the USB data lines should be filtered with two 47 pF capacitors to ground. Guess that can be added on the existing board with moderate soldering skills.

I'm almost tempted to get one of these tom play around with. To only real put-off being that I do not own and AVR trools (sold my STK-500 ages ago) or are familiar with AVR programming (beyond a few days of dabbling with Atmegas a long time back).

Wolfgang

 

[cdngunner]

Has anyone who has odered these things recieved them yet.......

I am at 5 weeks +

APPARENTLY he sent them out 10 days ago but the USPS trace still says;

The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper on April 17, 2011 to expect your package for mailing

Anyone else?

It took Texas Instruments 24 hours to ship me something from Norway, Shouldn't take 10 dauys for something to get here from Florida

I am an impatient man....

 

[manuka]

Florida you say- maybe awaiting space shuttle launch?

 

[fritz42_male]

Still waiting here; 2 weeks now.

 

[papaof2]

Has anyone who has odered these things recieved them yet.......

I am at 5 weeks +

APPARENTLY he sent them out 10 days ago but the USPS trace still says;


Anyone else?

It took Texas Instruments 24 hours to ship me something from Norway, Shouldn't take 10 dauys for something to get here from Florida

I am an impatient man....

I shop online for electronics parts and this is what I've found: If shipped via Priority Mail, you should see it in the USPS system as soon as it is scanned in at a post office or a bulk mail site. If shipped First Class mail with tracking, it may not show up in the USPS system until it reaches the destination post office. For between-country shipments Thailand -> US, Malaysia -> US), it shows up when it enters the originating country's outgoing mail stream and often not again until it reaches the destination post office.

I don't start looking for these packages until at least 10 business days after the seller notifies me of shipment. For specific sellers/countries, the time may be 15 to 20 business days.

John

 

[cdngunner]

I order quite a lot from the states. It usually doesnot take that long for things to get here. It is out of the ordinary(for me) for something I have ordered from the states to take this long using USPS.

but again I am probably just being impatient.

 

[lildave]

4+ weeks and did you notice the price went up

 

[edski31]

It took 4 1\2 weeks to get mine. Keep in mind we had some really bad tornadoes in the south east and it has screwed up UPS and FEDEX . A friend of mind had $500. worth of stuff destroyed and waiting for UPS to replace it. Which will take weeks to happen. (sigh)

 

[Haku]

Wish I'd seen this thread when it was started, $35 is a nice price but bumping it up to $50 puts me off.

As for postal refunds, I'm still waiting for Parcelfarce to finish a claim I put in some two months ago for a package they crushed during transit.

 

[cdngunner]

IIRC it still is 35 for the "assemble-your-self" version


yup, I was correct

http://www.gabotronics.com/electronic-kits-modules/kit-to-build-xprotolab.htm



....as of today 6 weeks since ordering....

 

[lildave]

just got the notice "status changed to shipped"

 

[fritz42_male]

To be fair to Gabriel, he told me when the new stock of parts would be arriving 3 weeks in advance of the date and he shipped within 48 hours of that arrival date.

Perhaps we are all a bit too impatient given that he's probably a one-man band and this may not be his main source of income.

 

[cdngunner]

To be fair to Gabriel, he told me when the new stock of parts would be arriving 3 weeks in advance of the date and he shipped within 48 hours of that arrival date.

Perhaps we are all a bit too impatient given that he's probably a one-man band and this may not be his main source of income.

Although he may be a one man show.....six weeks IS being patient.

The worst part of the whole thing(for me) is that he said he shipped it yet the trace says its only been electronically filed. Although I have some faith in the postal system, I am starting to wonder what has happened to it after he dropped it off.....

 

[fritz42_male]

Yes but is it 6 weeks since it was shipped or 6 weeks since you ordered - the latter is a LOT different.

As I say, Gabriel told me exactly when the parts were arriving and warned that that date was a just short of a month away. I made the choice of ordering and paying at that point anyway.

I suppose the proof of the pudding is when we get them - check the post date on the package. I for one don't mind the wait if the product is as per the video as it is cheap and cheerful. I'm used to long delivery times here in WA anyway.

The trouble with Yanks and Canuks is that they are too used to getting good and instant service!





EDIT: My 4 just walked through the door. Looking forward to playing with them!

 

[Dippy]

Give the manufacturer a break ... he's probably soldering like crazy in his garden shed

 

[fritz42_male]

Just unwrapped my first.

The USB cable I have is the wrong type (onboard socket is a Micro-B). So I just stuck it in a breadboard and powered it off 3xAA.

First impressions are good. All components appear to be of very good quality. The only self-assembly part is soldering in the PDI header which can be soldered on the top OR the bottom of the board depending on whether you are breadboarding it or permanently mounting on a custom board. I'm leaving mine off as I have no use for it at the moment.

It's an amazingly compact unit!

The screen is surprisingly clear and legible for such a small screen. I needed my reading glasses though!

The buttons are good and moving round the menus is easy. I'll rig a Picaxe up on the breadboard next and try some signal generation.

 

[cdngunner]

Give the manufacturer a break ... he's probably soldering like crazy in his garden shed

As I say, Gabriel told me exactly when the parts were arriving and warned that that date was a just short of a month away. I made the choice of ordering and paying at that point anyway.
...

The trouble with Yanks and Canuks is that they are too used to getting good and instant service!

Ah hemmmm........

Although I have some faith in the postal system, I am starting to wonder what has happened to it after he dropped it off

I am not worried about Gabrial.....

I am worried that the post office may have lost them or that some nasty tornado has taken them to OZ........

 

[fritz42_male]

Ah hemmmm........



I am not worried about Gabrial.....

I am worried that the post office may have lost them or that some nasty tornado has taken them to OZ........

you aren't in Kansas anymore Toto!

 

[ganzziani]

Hi, Gabriel here from Gabotronics, I thought it might be good to join this conversation.

I am worried that the post office may have lost them or that some nasty tornado has taken them to OZ........

If you don't receive the package this week, I will send you a new package, with another carrier.

someone pitches 8 bits of vertical resolution (that is 256 steps) and the displayed waveform is 16 pixels high (equivalent to a whopping 4 bits of true - observable - resolution) Even if you blow up the waveform to full screen height it's still only 64 pixels = 6 bits, not 8.

I am actually using 10 bits. After capturing the data, the offset compensation is applied to this 10 bit number, and then I take an 8 bit window from it. If I just take an 8 bit measurement, then after applying the offset compensation, the signal would be clipped. Now I have an 8 bit sample, off course, the display can only show 64 points vertically, but you can move the signal up and down by changing the vertical position. The full 8 bits are also used in the measurements of the voltmeter and FFT modes.

after about an hour you will be screaming in frustration since every parameter change requires multiple presses on some tiny pushbuttons to get into/out of several menu layers, plus a number of button presses to actually change the parameter.

I have been getting good feedback on how intuitive the menu system is, you should try it too..

had the thing a PC link

This is now possible in the latest hardware revision. But note that you will need a USB to UART cable. The PC app is in development.

"adding" USB connectivity to the scope will mean a complete rewrite from scratch of the scope firmware

The device itself is using the UART, adding the interface is simple, I won't need to rewrite the whole firmware.

I'm almost tempted to get one of these tom play around with. To only real put-off being that I do not own and AVR trools (sold my STK-500 ages ago) or are familiar with AVR programming (beyond a few days of dabbling with Atmegas a long time back).

How about a trade? One Xprotolab and one USB to UART cable in exchage of one of your DPScope? Email me if you are interested.

I also added your scope on my list, check it out!

4+ weeks and did you notice the price went up

Please check this.

Thank you all for your interest in my Xprotolab.

 

[womai]

Hi Gabriel,

I'd be interested in this trade (Xprotolab vs. DPScope). I'll drop you a PM. Always fun to play with a new little toy

For the entry about the DPScope on your website (thanks by the way!), some corrections - except in datalogger mode it only stores 8 bits per sample, not 10. On the other hand, sample rate can go to 20 MSa/sec for repetitive signals (1 MSa/sec is limit only for single-shot, and I recently published a little hack to make this 2 MSa/sec if using a single channel).

I take your point about the offset helping to give wider range and/or finer resolution. Still, it's a pain if you have to do this on a regular basis. Effectively only 6 bits visible at any one time. Note that even many low-end standalone scopes have a similar issue - 200 points vertical screen resolution, and the waveform rarely can use the whole screen, so it's ~7 effective bits instead of the specified 8 for them. Of course if you run your device with a PC based GUI then the full resolution becomes usable.

At least personally I'm not a big friend of navigating a scope with just a couple of pushbuttons, no matter how interactive they are or how well-thought-out the menu system is. A set of pots/rotary encoders etc. on a frontpanel - or a mouse-operated GUI on a PC - will always be 10 times faster to operate in a real-life situation.

As for the PC software, if you have the source code then I agree adding USB support should be a minor update. But at least at the time I wrote my comment the firmware source code was NOT publicly available, so my comment applied to anybody other than yourself who wanted to do that - he/she would have to re-invent the wheel (read: the firmware) before they could do it. In any case, great to hear you are already working on a PC app.

 

[ganzziani]

For the entry about the DPScope on your website (thanks by the way!), some corrections - except in datalogger mode it only stores 8 bits per sample, not 10. On the other hand, sample rate can go to 20 MSa/sec for repetitive signals

I've updated the resolution to 8 bits. The sampling rate that I enter in the table is for single shot.

 

[cdngunner]

If you don't receive the package this week, I will send you a new package, with another carrier.

.

Thank you kind sir. I will let it sit yet another week or so in case Toto brings it to my door step.

Apologies for misspelling your name.

 

[cdngunner]

TOTO came!

or was it Ol' Saint Nick!!!!

Everything has arrived. Three weeks by USPS is a record for me.

Still, no customs charges so I will not complain.