Wireless control in a noisy environment

Andrew Cowan

Senior Member
One of my latest projects is a RGBY LED floodlamp (for lack of a better word).

I've built a wooden box which houses twelve 4W RGBY (red, green, blue, yellow) LED modules. These have built in constant current drivers with PWM. Control will most likely be a 28X2.

Power is provided by a decased 12V 5A power supply. A 60mm fan blows air through the whole thing - the speed of which is controlled by an 08M and thermistor. The unit plugs into 240v through an IEC socket in the side.

I'm hoping to do the communication and control to it through RF wireless. The range needs to be no more than 10 meters or so (inside), so nothing to complex. I decided to make use of PICAXE's new rfin and rfout commands, so I stuck a bog standard 434MHz AM receiver into it. Sending a message between my AM modules on breadboard was fine - however...;

When installed in the unit, communication is intermitant. When the LEDs are turned on, the communication never gets through and the unit doesn't respond.

To troubleshoot this, I first hooked a scope to the supply of receiver. The result is about 30mV of ripple in the supply, at a few hundred hertz. While not ideal, I do think why this isn't working.

I next turned on a high quality amateur radio, tuned to 434Mhz. When the floodlight is not plugged in, there is the usual background buzz. When the floodlight is plugged in, the radio is filled with buzzing and static at a much higher volume. When the LEDs are turned on, it gets even louder.

Conclusion: Somewhere, this unit is generating a lot of noise at 434MHz. It could be the switching power supply, the LED drivers or something else - I'm not sure. But it's very apparent that my AM modules are not going to be any use for this project.

I could switch to FM modules, as these have much better performance in noisy environments. However, I have a feeling that the performance would still be dodgy and intermittant - there's a lot of noise.

IR is not a possible solution, although not ideal for this project. I think I'll keep it as a in-case-everything-else-fails idea...

I'd be very interested to hear any thoughts on the matter! I have a feeling that 2.4GHz modules (such as xbees) would perform better in this situation - has anyone any recommendations on what 2.4GHz modules are any good (and cheap)?

A groundplane/shielding around the module may help, but I'd be very interested in an off the shelf solution.

Thanks for any ideas!

Andrew
 

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manuka

Senior Member
I'd strongly suspect the switched mode power supply! A similar woe has just come my way, although it related to a (legal) 500mW community FM transmitter on ~88 MHz. A boring old linear supply should cure it, but perhaps first organise a trial with some batteries?
 

Dippy

Moderator
"These have built in constant current drivers with PWM"
Are these switched-mode style?

Have you tried firing them up and putting a domestic AM or Short wave radio near?
I had enormous problems with radio controlled CFLs. The noise simply swamped the RF signal and , in fact, also brought the micro to a halt quite often.
It's just a thought, RF plus S/Mode needs careful and tedious checking and shielding.
 

Andrew Cowan

Senior Member
Thanks for the replies and thoughts.

As Stan suggests, it seems by far the most likely source of the noise is the SMPS. Requiring 5A at 12v is quite a high requirement - the compact size and low cost of the SMPS I'm using mean I'm reluctant to replace it.

Do people think that the RF being given off by the power supply is being given off in the actual supply, or in my wiring?

If it's the latter, would a choke like this help? If it's all being given off in the supply, could I make a faraday cage around it?

My concern is that any RF module will be swamped by noise - although higher frequency modules that aren't AM should be less affected.

Thanks again!

A
 

Goeytex

Senior Member
For a low cost 2.4 Ghz solution check out the 2400 M0dules from INHAOS. These are sw compatible with the Nordic NRF2401+ Modules at 1/5 the cost.
Range should be adequate for you application. Interface to Picaxe is SPI. You still need to get a clean supply and filter any noise generated from the PWM/ LED driver.

http://www.inhaos.com/product_info.php?products_id=35
 

Andrew Cowan

Senior Member
Goeytex - they look amazing (for the price)! I'll get a couple to experiment with.

Dippy - I missed your reply earlier. "Are these switched-mode style?" I think so (datasheet). I've found that my cheap unshielded speakers buzz when the floodlight is on - it seems the whole thing is giving out large quantities of RF. The controlling 28X2 seems fine - I haven't had any unexpected resets. I'm wondering if I might be best off lining the inside of the enlosure with grounded shielding and going with a wired link, rather than trying to use radio near it.

Do you think I'd have more luck with a 2.4Ghz radio? I'm imagine it would be giving off less noise in that area.

A
 

Goeytex

Senior Member
"..they look amazing (for the price)! I'll get a couple to experiment with.
I am setting up a pair right now I as I am posting this message. Will provide feedback later today
or tomorrow.

Goey
 

john2051

New Member
Hi, Am is notorious for its poor noise rejection, and i'd love to know who thought it would be a good idea to
allow low power low quality radio modules, slap bang in the 430mhz amateur band. My personal choice would be
fm on the highest frequency (2.4 or 5.8GHz).
Regards John
 

Andrew Cowan

Senior Member
Goey - do show your code when you've got them working - I've ordered four modules.

John - I agree AM and 434 is a very bad combination (although not as bad as the AM and 315MHz I tried earlier). The 2.4 modules I've ordered should behave considerably better.

A
 
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Goeytex

Senior Member
Goey - do show your code when you've got them working - I've ordered four modules.
Up and running. Not 100 percent compatible with Nordic as some of the registers are a bit different. Working out some bugs. Range
is over 25 meters with PCB trace "wigggle" antenna. Will post code after I figure out how to get data Pipes 2- 5 working.

G
 
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Andrew Cowan

Senior Member
Thanks Goeytex - looks like a lot of hard work's gone into that!

Can you explain to me what the pipes are all about? For my application, I just want the transmitting 20X2 to:
- serin six bytes
- transmit this to the receiver
- repeat

And the receiving 20X2 to:
- wait for, and receive the six bytes from the transmitter
- raise an output (data ready)
- wait for an input (send data)
- serout the data to the master PICAXE
- repeat

What parts of your code will I need to use for this? Will I need two pipes for my six bytes?

Thanks,

Andrew
 

Goeytex

Senior Member
Each "Pipe" has a receive address and is like a virtual receiver. A Pipe can hold 32 Bytes of data in the buffer. If you want to use auto ACK then you will use 2 Pipes. Pipe_0 receives the ACK data. normal data is received on Pipe1 or any other pipe you select. These modules can be configured to do almost anything you want.

Suggest you download RF2400 Design Kit and read the BK2400 Datasheet.

http://www.inhaos.com/product_info.php?products_id=35
 
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Goeytex

Senior Member
Initial testing has shown a range of ~> 5O meters line of site with the modules oriented horizontally. I have the wiggle antenna versions. The P version with the PIFA antenna should do better with a 1 dBm improvement per INHAOS so I'm guessing about 75 meters Max with he

If range is very important and cost is not an issue, the output could be sent to a Linx BBA-519A Wideband RF Amp Module then to a real antenna. Possible 50mw output. Set the power level to meet Country Regulations. Cost $13 US from Mouser.
 

inglewoodpete

Senior Member
I've found that my cheap unshielded speakers buzz when the floodlight is on - it seems the whole thing is giving out large quantities of RF.
Cheap low impedance speakers are generally not sensitive to noise. However, the input, output and power supply sides of a cheap amplifier will be a more likely source of noise in speakers. Also, the speaker leads can act as an antenna if the amplifier's output is sensitive to HF noise.
 
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Andrew Cowan

Senior Member
IWP - as you suggested, it's the amplifier picking up the noise.

The satellite speakers plug into the amp through coaxial cable - according to forums, the cable is very poorly shielded. I think it would probably help to add ferrite beads to these cables, to block some of the HF noise.
 

ciseco

Senior Member
Andrew, if you don't fancy getting into SPI code and it to work like you want it too (just a line or two of serin/serout code) then the XRF or XBee is straight RX/TX serial.

Either should be ok in that environment, we have some in much worse. Theres a new breakout board for them that uses standard 0.1" headers to make connecting to the tiny 2mm pitch unecessary and breadboarding easier. Both also work with the AXE210 from RevEd, although the XRF is the only one you can firmware upgrade with the AXE210.

Miles
 
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