USB Oscilloscoopes

catalina

New Member
Am considering these items as an alternative to the bench models.

Have searched the forum and found a deal of discussion that seemed to wind down about 18 months ago. The consenus then was to steer clear of the sound card models. Since that time USB models have become more sophiscated and more prolific.

Has anyone had recent experience with the USB scopes? Helpful postings of experiences would be appreciated
 

Mycroft2152

Senior Member
The freesound card scope software is worth a look.

A word of caution, the pc sound card is designed for a 1 volt peak to peak signal, so proper conditioning is a must. Also, the input is AC coupled, so dc signal are not passed. Slowly changing signals do pass.
 
I've had good success with a Sound Card Scope (but it just may be that the things I do with it are not that demanding). Anyway, here is a link to the Parallax Forum discussion thread about how to build an opto-isolator circuit to protect your PC: http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=21&m=165230

Of additional interest, in the same forum is a link to http://www.zeitnitz.de/Christian/Scope/Scope_en.html , which in my opinion is the best free oscope software you will find... I have downloaded many and find this one to be the best!!
 

womai

Senior Member
I use the Velleman PCSU USB scope. 50 MHz digital sampling rate means you can reliably look at signals up to about 20 MHz (analog) bandwidth, which covers everything you can do with a Picaxe. It also has an equivalent time sampling mode for even higher resolution, and can do real-time FFT so you can use it as a spectrum analyzer as well. It's quite a bit cheaper than the Picoscope models, for similar performance and features (record length is shorter though). I also have the arbitrary waveform generator from the same company.

By the way, in my job I have access to many of the highest-end scopes on the market (15 GHz real-time sampling, and 50 GHz equivalent time) but still prefer the Velleman for slower-speed work, not least because I can easily put it on my desk with a breadboard setup and don't have to roll up a heavy cart. Personally I think that the USB based scopes are probably the best solution for the serious hobbyist, since by now they have similar peformance (and more features) than low-end standalone scopes, for a fraction of the price (usually half or less) and take up much less space on your desk (a good argument whenever your "home lab" is restricted in space). Also it's much easier to e.g. capture a waveform in numeric format or use it as a datalogger. (many standalone scopes have RS-232 or GPIB only as an option, and/or require you to write custom code to capture waveforms on the PC).

About two years ago I tried many of the free sound-card based scopes, butfinally went away in disgust. It's hard to get a stable picture, they can't display any DC offset (since the card is AC coupled), bandwidth is dismal (20 kHz or lower), so their applicability is severely limited, and I'm always afraid I'll fry my whole PC if I'm not careful. Sound cards are just not meant to be used as a scope. In my opinion all that makes them harder - not easier - to use for a novice than a real scope. Also the Parallax scope is more a toy than an instrument given its low bandwidth (200 kHz is a joke, and it isn't exactly cheap at $99).

If you can live with 20 kHz sample rates there are many links on the internet that show how to build simple circuits for a few dollars that can be driven over the parallel port, and can include opto-coupling. But for anyone serious about his/her electronics hoppy I'd recommend saving up for a real (USB or standalone) scope, I guarantee you won't regret it. Having a reliable means to look at your signal makes development ant troubleshooting so much faster. Ever wanted to know if your Picaxe resonator is really oscillating? Ever wanted to know if your PWM signal is really running at 100 kHz? Ever wanted to look at 115 kbaud RS-232? A soundcard scope won't be able to do any of that... If a new USB scope is really out of reach financially, you can still scoop up a cheap old used analog scope on Ebay for a few dollars - won't look as slick and will take up more space (and be heavier to carry around), but still beats a sound card scope by a wide margin.

Of course that's only my personal opinion, though born out of several years of practical experience, so feel free to disagree.

Wolfgang
 
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manuka

Senior Member
Soundcard I/o Rules Ok!

That USB Velleman also appeals, but it's price (~US$ 330) is rather daunting for beginners.

For those used to gold plated budgets (&-yes- I've enjoyed such myself...), it's sobering to reflect that many western schools have to annually juggle their scores-hundreds of electronic workroom students at just a few $ a head. NOT A MISPRINT ! This typically covers EVERYTHING = wire-solder-Picaxes- repairs-projects. If it wasn't for enterprising educators,donated/begged gear (& freebies such as sound card scopes) little stimulating hands on electronics learning would occur...

PC soundcards have long been a general purpose I/O of course, & they now find enormous use for ADC, data logging & signal decoding as well. I set up an acoustically coupled Hellschreiber & SSTV demo with 2 old laptops in a school hall recently,which jaded kids voted a winning display- there were queues even in their lunch break to use it. Stan
 

moxhamj

New Member
My personal preference is a bench model, but this is only because I can't afford the USB ones (have they come down recently?) I tried for years to get soundcards to work (and they do for specific things like a 1Khz tone) but when debugging filters and signals >4khz and <50Hz there are too many artifacts introduced by the filter caps in the soundcard. And the lack of DC on the display is a pain. USB ones are great if you can afford them but I never have been able to and finally I decided to just buy a standard CRO on ebay. Cost $110Au and is one of the best 'shed' purchases I've made in years. Dick Smith here in Australia sell them new for $129. The soundcard has gone back to its original task and is now being used to play music.
 

Fletch

Member
I actually asked about USB scopes a while ago so now I have a recommendation I've just bought a Velleman USB scope. Like I said at the time I live in an appartment and so tools that are small and easy to transport are at a premium.
 

LizzieB

Senior Member
Allow me to plug Visual Analyzer, a very good multifunction sound card program that includes Oscilloscope, Spectrum Analyzer, Wave-form generator, Frequency meter and counter, Volt meter with true rms, peak to peak and mean display and a bunch of other useful stuff. It's free, but well worth a donation to the author.
 

womai

Senior Member
Dr_Acula,

one should mention two serious limitations of "classic" analog CRT based scopes: first, no pre-trigger, so you can't look at things that happen before the trigger event, and second, the effective record length is pretty short (you can maybe make out things that are 1/20th unit wide, so 200 points effective resolution with 10 grid units horizontally, while even the Velleman can do 4000 points). But still _way_ better than nothing and _way_ better than a soundcard.

For anyone looking out to buy a scope of no matter what type, I'd strongly suggest limiting your search to models with two (or more) input channels. There are lower-end USB scopes (and at least one cheap CRT scope) around that have only one channel, but you'll hit your head against the wall the moment you DON'T want to trigger off the signal itself (e.g. to see how the data signal is aligned to the clock on an SPI interface). As for bandwidth, 10 MHz would be the lowest I'd go for (don't confuse sample rate and bandwidth, the former should be at least 3x times the needed bandwidth), with >= 50 MHz a better choice. (believe me, there will be a time when you want to see an overclocked Picaxe's 28X1 oscillator signal at 20 MHz :)

I have been looking for a long time at how one could build a decent scope (2 channels, >10 MHz bandwidth, adjustable gain and offset, serial or USB connection) for less than e.g. Velleman sells their model, but believe me, it won't be easy (otherwise somebody would already have done it I guess). Just parts (a small FPGA, two ADCs, fast op-amps, connectors, printed circuit board, etc.) will run at least around US$100 in moderate quantities. Not counting the many hours to spend on writing the capture & display software on the PC, programming the FPGA,... Using a microcontroller with built-in ADC (e.g. PIC or Atmel) would be easier, and you can find some designs on the web, but limits performance to <200 kHz bandwidth (the fastest Atmel based one had a sample rate of around 600 kSamples/sec, i.e. digital bandwidth of around 250 kHz if you do sinx/x interpolation).

Wolfgang
 
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LizzieB - great recommendation! I think I may have found my new favorite!!! Visual Analyzer is loaded with lots of great features!!!!! Thanks!
 

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
The two most important things I believe that are needed on any scope are two channels and preferably a separate trigger plus digital storage. Bandwidth may not be a real problem for many hobbyists but the more the better. I consider spending any reasonable amount of money and buying a non-DSO as throwing money away. Others would disagree; it depends on what one wants to do or needs.

I'm currently doing some audio work and wanted to see what was coming out, to see if the waveforms were as expected. Used a SoundCard Scope ( actually any program I could find ) and I've come to the conclusion my hardware ( PWM+RC ) is so awful I cannot tell anything useful beyond the output goes up and down. Two morals there - don't rush to buy a scope if it's going to be no use or when a SoundCard Scope will suffice.

The biggest problem with SoundCard Scopes I found ( beyond not fitting on an 800x600 display ) is that few authors seem to have had the gumption to make them look and work exactly like a real scope. The frills are fine but when they do not do what you want they're not a lot of use nor fun to use.

The bottom line for me is that you cannot beat a physical DSO with knobs to twiddle, buttons to push and levers to toggle, but they cost money and a SoundCard Scope is free.

Added : Came back this morning, thought I'd give it another try and having moved cables around the waveform is absolutely noise free. In the real world this would probably equate to "decent scope probes are well worth the investment'.
 
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