Sparkfun 18M2 (non)availability

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John West

Senior Member
FYI

The message I sent:
On 11/21/2010 3:01 PM, john west wrote:
> Hi
>
> I've been checking regularly over the last few months to see if you are selling the PICAXE 18M2 micro-controller yet.
>
> Though it came out a few months ago my searches on your site still turn up nothing.
>
> Will you be offering it along with your other PICAXE products? I need several of them and I'd prefer to purchase them from you, as I live nearby and find your "will-call" local pickup service to be very convenient.
>
> John
> *******

The reply I got:

Hello,

I cant tell you right now if we are planing to carry the PICAXE 18M2 because all of those people are out for vacation. Try asking next week. We also don't really list expected times for new products because everything is random.
Hope this helps out.

your friend,
(snip)
Customer Service Rep
Sparkfun Electronics
303-284-0979
_______


It appears for the time being that USA customers such as I will need to either purchase from some other US supplier or import the chips from Merry Olde England. I'm surprised to see Sparkfun dropping the ball like this.

I'd expect better from a company that's apparently doing well in the middle of a recession. (They might at least buy an apostrophe or two with some of their money.)

P.S. Vacation = holiday for all you folks who speak the Queen's English. :)
 
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Dippy

Moderator
I love the "Hope this helps out". ;)

It's as much use as a Chocolate Chastity Belt.

"everything is random" .... what's he been smoking?

Totally unawesome and totally uncool.

Does it cost much to order direct?
Is the product price any lower when you order direct and cut out the middleman?
Maybe because the 18M2 is so inexpensive that Sparkun can't see a worthwhile margin to bother stocking it?

PS. I know what a vacation is. It comes from the Latin "Holidayus" :)
Actually 'vacation' is probably a better word as we all know where "holiday" comes from don't we.
 
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J

John West

Senior Member
A chocolate chastity belt. Now there's something I could wrap my head around.

Yes, the "Hope this helps out" was indeed amusing. Actually it did help out. Now I won't continue to sit on my thumbs waiting for them to offer the chip. My money will go elsewhere.

Premelec and I went in together on a small purchase directly from Rev. Ed. soon after the chips came out. Shipping price wasn't too bad considering the fact that we shared the expense.

However, (counting shipping,) at about $5 US for each 18M2 chip I might as well drop by their shop and purchase the 20X2 from Sparkfun (just $2 for the pick-up fee for an entire order.)

As I wish to buy several of the 18M2's I'd really prefer to pay less for them than the 20X2 price. To my mind the low price for the high performance of the 18M2 is the reason to buy them. But if I lose that savings to shipping charges I might as well just purchase 20X2's.

What I find odd is that Technical (I believe it was) said Sparkfun had made a large purchase of 18M2's well over a month ago. I wonder where they all went? Into some other product and not available as individual pieces?

Corporations vs customers - the never ending battle. Sigh.
 
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Dippy

Moderator
"What I find odd is that Technical (I believe it was) said Sparkfun had made a large purchase of 18M2's well over a month ago. I wonder where they all went? "
- they've probably got them in a storeroom , but the blokes unpacking the boxes are on vacation.

After all, everything is random Geezer innit.


PS. Blokes = Guys for those who don't speak the Queen's English :)
 
J

John West

Senior Member
Not to worry, Dippy. I was raised on........The Beatles! I know a "bloke" from a "bird."

Though there are numerous references I do miss on this site. It's all English, but there are still a lot of differences in the day-to-day spoken languages.
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
"I know a "bloke" from a "bird."
- phew! So it's safe for us to share a lift (elevator) now ;)

It's all good fun really.
Keping our senses of humour is the best thing that can ever happen.
 
J

John West

Senior Member
Indeed it is. I once worked with a Brit mechanical engineer. On a daily basis we would batter each other with word games involving our separate versions of the language. From "earth" to "aluminiminiminimum" we'd go back and forth.

What made it still more amusing was that we worked for a Japanese company.
 
R

RexLan

Senior Member
Sparkfun is not a great place to purchase anything. They use MSRP pricing plus 15% on just about all products. I was buying my GPS modules from Trimble then Sparkfun got in the loop and the price went up 40%. Same thing with the Picaxe chips.

As I understand it, there was some infighting with RevEd and World Ed and they finally got pushed out and Spark Fun put in place diluting the small market. Now, it is quite difficult to get most of the Picaxe chips and impossible to get them is SMT.

I bought my last batch from Anderson but he is limited on what he will carry and rightfully so.
 
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gengis

New Member
Must be a hot item.
http://www.phanderson.com/picaxe/
Nov 23, '10. I am out of the PICAXE-18M2. I expect to have more by Dec 1, '10. Sorry.


He also has a $30 solderless breadboard with 18M2 'axe included (usb adapter included along with some beginner parts and power supply from usb) Doesn't specifically state that those don't have the 18M2 but I'd email him first if you want to try that.
 
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MFB

Senior Member
SparkFun invest a great deal of effort producing tutorials and other support material for the Arduino range of products. It would be nice to see the same level of support for the PICAXE, as these two microcontrollers families are more complementary than alternative.
 
J

John West

Senior Member
I have no use for solderless breadboards. I've been soldering circuits for 50 years. It's one of the few things I'm good at (and like to do,) so I might as well do it.

Sorry to hear Dr. Anderson is out of stock. He was my first choice for US purchase of the 18M2. Oh well.

And thanks, Flooby for the heads-up on Sparkfun pricing. I'll double check the total costs elsewhere before I purchase there again. Depending on my order it may be cheaper to pay shipping from elsewhere than to stop at the Sparkfun office for a pick-up order.

As I recall, there's a limit to the size (value) of orders direct from Rev. Ed. before a big government "export duty" or some such additional charge kicks in. At around $35 US or so, I think it is. That keeps the overall shipping charges high even if I wanted to buy enough to otherwise reduce the "per piece" shipping cost.

Can't even fly across the pond and stuff my shorts with them and fly back home these days. Too much nasty airport security.

They get you coming and going.
 
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inglewoodpete

Senior Member
John West said:
Can't even fly across the pond and stuff my shorts with them and fly back home these days. Too much nasty airport security.

They get you coming and going.
Click to expand...
Stuffing your shorts with DIPs? Oww. I'd say that airport security was doing you a favour!

I have to admit that US and Australian security is the toughest that I've come across. I always carry covering letters for electronic equipment and components that I have to carry in my luggage. Some security staff can't tell the difference between a resistor and a rocket launcher.
 
J

John West

Senior Member
That's good to know, Pete. I'll be sure to tell them it's a resistor.

There was a time when one of the engineers I worked with here in the USA had to tape an IC to his leg to fly out of the US with it, back to the home office in Korea.

One of the oddities of big corporations doing business world-wide. They paid to have their employees over here design and build it but they couldn't legally get it home to use it. Thankfully, these days all that takes is a 30 second file transfer over the web.

Hopefully someone can figure out how to get the 18M2 into the US in quantity and sold for a reasonable price. It seems like a real handy chip.
 
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Dippy

Moderator
What are the duty rates payable?
Is it prohibitive?
Do you have to pay for currency exchange?
I would have thought that even the current exchange rate was quite attractive.
 
J

John West

Senior Member
All those government charges are on your end, Dippy, so I don't know exactly what they are, just what I've read about in here. Premelec and I purchased only four of the chips, so apparently we came in well under the price where the additional export charges come in.

I suppose I should do a bit of research into exactly where and when those charges come into play if I want to purchase more products directly from Rev. Ed. (Tech Supply) in England. Perhaps I can place orders that come in just under the wire and make it worthwhile.

Items are shipping into the States from China for next to nothing these days. It's a shame to see a wall placed in the way of commerce between the States and G.B..
 
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Dippy

Moderator
John, I'm confused.

Duty generated at our end?
Eh?

This may perhaps depend on the carrier, but a UK seller should be selling it tax free.
When it gets to your end a duty/tax is added based on the product type/code.
I think some carriers like UPS have some funny arrangement. I've certainly paid duty for a mixed bag of items from the USA.

US / UK /Aus /NZ and many more are MFNs. (Most Flavoured Nations).
I was genuinely under the impression that Integrated circuits of all sorts attracted ZERO% duty under that agreement.

You will of course be liable for any local sales tax or VAT and any handling/currency fees but I thought the import duty was Zero??

There should not be EXPORT duty from UK or anywhere normal.

PS. I just found this...
http://mkaccdb.eu.int/mkaccdb2/atDutyOverviewPubli.htm?datasettype=draft&hscode=8542&countries=US&datacat_id=AT&keyword=&submit=&showregimes=#
 
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J

John West

Senior Member
Dippy, the link said I was denied access because my server was not in the EU.

The plot thickens.

Perhaps it was an inspection fee as opposed to a "duty" fee. And perhaps it is based on who the carrier is (the manner of shipment.) I'm far from knowledgeable in such areas. But I have read in here that there is some sort of magic weight/price that one needs to stay beneath or all hell breaks out in extra charges.

I'll try to learn more as time permits. It seems worth knowing. Especially since by far the best 18M2 price I've found is from Tech Supplies.

Time for me to go fix electronic things. Later.
 
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Dippy

Moderator
Heres an image.... but what carriers (and, in particular Rev-Ed's chosen carriers) charge is another thing.

Throw a sausage to Ec and he'll go a-hunting. :)
 

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eclectic

Moderator
Dippy said:
Heres an image.... but what carriers (and, in particular Rev-Ed's chosen carriers) charge is another thing.

Throw a sausage to Ec and he'll go a-hunting. :)
Click to expand...
Don't tell Porkinsons. (tm) :)


GBP 4.50, 12, 19 ,25 for Airmail.

And, (sit down for this),
if you want a SMD 08M
see the FedEx pic

e (woof-woof)
 

Attachments

Technical

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
Postage charges depend on the value of goods and there are breakpoints at £10, £50 etc.

The under £10 service is uninsured and untracked. Therefore it is a cheap way to get the odd one or two parts. However if it gets lost, as unfortunately parcels sometimes do, there is no insurance.

The higher value services do cost a bit more, but are tracked and insured.

The FedEX rate is a fixed rate for up to 10kg. It is normally only used for very large orders.

Orders outside the EU do not incur any tax or duty from the UK, but they might (but normally don't) when they enter your country, any duty is then your responsibility.

EU orders must be charged VAT at the current UK rate - 17.5% (20% after 4 Jan 2011).
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
Looks clear enough to me.

Where did JW get this "All those government charges are on your end, Dippy, so I don't know exactly what they are.." ????
 
E

eclectic

Moderator
@JohnW

Ignoring the silly banter of posts #23/24.

I have bought an 18M2 for £2.35. (inc. VAT) from TechSupplies.

Buying £100 worth of equipment from RevEd
would cost me £117.50 + postage.
(And I have done so, several times)

I live ~ 100 miles from RevEd HQ.

You, could buy £100 's worth,
and pay postage
and have it delivered >4000 miles away,
for probably less than we Brits pay!

Three suggestions.
1. Load up your calculator / spreadsheet.
2. Have a look around the Techsupplies store.
3. Save up ~$180 :)

It really might be worth importing from GB?

e (and OE)

And I will never understand Economics.
That's why I'm impoverished.
 

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manuka

Senior Member
Electic: You could also mention Option 4 = Order from/move to New Zealand.
I've surely mentioned a zillion times that both UK exports and recipient imports (at least here to NZ) are VAT/GST free - our NZ threshold is NZ$400 (~200 Pounds). Simply bulk order co-op style & split upon arrival. Delivery from Rev.Ed/Tech.Supplies is extremely rapid (~4 days). Because unit costs this way are so reasonable (even in spite of hefty p&p),you could almost re-export a few at budget prices to mates back in the EU/UK/USA. I've in fact occasionally done just this for diverse electronic items !

Even 50 years ago I used to order parts from the UK (with a delivery time then of months), at landed costs typically just third-half those local NZ suppliers were asking. Fair enough-they were in business after all, with expectations of maybe 50% markups to cover their costs and overheads. I'm not implying local outlets should be neglected, but in a global village the whole planet becomes your supplier.

Stan.
 
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eclectic

Moderator
Electic: Ah-you could also mention an option 4 = order from New Zealand.

I've surely mentioned a zillion times that both UK exports and recipient imports (at least here to NZ) are VAT/GST free - our NZ threshold is NZ$400 (~200 Pounds). Simply bulk order co-op style & split upon arrival. Delivery from Rev.Ed/Tech.Supplies is extremely rapid (~4 days). Because unit costs this way are so reasonable (even in spite of hefty p&p),you could almost re-export a few at budget prices to mates back in the EU/UK/USA. I've in fact occasionally done just this for diverse electronic items !

I'm not implying local outlets should be neglected, but in a global village the whole planet becomes your supplier. Stan. (who as a kid ordered parts from the UK that had a delivery time of months)
Click to expand...
I'm geuinely economically naive.
Is it cheaper to order say £100 worth of kit
(See attachment post #27)
and send it to NZ,

then re-send to USA?

Ec

(May rename as Pooh, of very little brain.)
And if that isn't a telegraph line to Dippy,
then nothing is :)
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
You're very lucky then Stan. I am genuinely surprised.

If you go over a certain small threshold in UK, the recipient/purchaser has to pay any Duty/Excise and then VAT on top. No choice other than Jail.
You can pay it at the port or if arranged, on your doorstep.
Payment method has to be irrevocable.

I'm sure the USA and Canada are similar.

Do you remember a wee while ago a thread on about Ebay? One of the vendors from China would put an artificially low (and ILLEGAL) invoice in with the product so that the tight-arsed Customer could (ILLEGALLY) avoid duty/tax.

So, you're either lucky or we'll come and visit you inside.
Wednesdays are good for me :)


Ec: it will be exported Tax Exempt, but JW will be obliged to pay any sales Taxes upon receipt.
This is often collected by the delivery man - depends on carriers and agreements with ports.
Exchange rate benefits is another issue of course.
Only Stan gets things Tax Free.
 
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eclectic

Moderator
Dippy said:
Snip
This is often collected by the delivery man - depends on carriers and agreements with ports.
Exchange rate benefits is another issue of course.
Only Stan gets things Tax Free.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

It's too cop-mplicated for me.

I'll just stick to being poor and honest.
e
 
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manuka

Senior Member
Dippy: Wednesday suits me fine too,as I'm too busy water skiing or SCUBA diving other days. It'll have to be after lunch however, as Wednesday golf dominates much of the cooler morning. Trust champagne OK with you for thirst quenching? Local of course- none of that EU plonk.

There's nothing illegal about modest imports being GST free,and both NZ & Australia have decent "little guy" exemption levels. I'd be surprised if other countries don't have similar, as the rationale of course relates to trivial collections being hardly worth the paperwork. Such has not always been the case here, & pre the GST/VAT era I particularly recall blinkered sales tax collection flunkies driving one crazy with their random regulatory interpretations.

Trust you folks in Blighty aren't being scammed by some uniformed layabouts posing as "Tax Officials"!?
 
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eclectic

Moderator
He looked at 'is screen near midnight,
for tax loop 'oles 'e could clutch.

But wiv VAT and duty;
well the cost was way too much.


It's the same, the 'hole world over:
It's the poor, wot pays the tax.

And the rich, rake in the takin's
'cos the laws are just too lax.

e

(The play on words that I wrote)
 
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W

westaust55

Moderator
Australia does not fair too badly either for import duties:

Goods with a declared or assessed value not exceeding A$1,000

If your goods arrive in Australia by mail and have a declared or assessed value of A$1,000 or less, the goods may be imported free of duty, taxes and Customs and Border Protection charges, unless they are alcohol products or tobacco products. Apart from alcohol and tobacco products those goods will be cleared by Customs and Border Protection and delivered by Australia Post without you doing anything.
Click to expand...
Just sit back but don't include fags or champagne with the order for PICAXE chips
 
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manuka

Senior Member
WestAust55: Fags or champagne-and from the EU ? What sort of idle talk is this !

Eclectic : I'll see your verse & raise you an instant limerick-

When ordering hardware abroad
It's wise to have an accord
With ones local taxes
Since imports of 'AXES,
May be more than you can afford.

Stan.
 
E

eclectic

Moderator
manuka said:
WestAust55: Fags or champagne-and from the EU ? What sort of idle talk is this !

Eclectic : I'll see your verse & raise you an instant limerick-

Stan.
Click to expand...
And I'll see you, with a Clerihew.

Stanley Manuka
Sat puffing his Hookah.
And drinking Champagne,
free of taxation strain.

Ec
Definitely out. :)
 
S

shellakaa

Member
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Dippy

Moderator
I don't know that product or the 'trade' price, but, with the exception of excess, I'm just going to defend some markups generally.
I am not responding specifically to Shellakaa, but I'm making a general point.


People are spoilt by China/Ebay prices.

When a large/reputable importer or retailer holds stock it costs money.

Not only the staff to answer the phone ,take orders and pack boxes , but part of that markup is there to pay for advice, support and warranty replacement.

Many vendors on a well known site don't give a tinker's cuss for warranty - especially on overseas sales.
Often because the product is so cheap the poor recipient will bin the duffer rather than chase it up. They know that. And they know many purchasers are wimps.
Obviously that is good for the faceless vendor, but bad for the environment - not that people give a damn AS LONG as they get their widgets cheap.
As a result, the support/warranty cost content can be removed and you all can get your cheap stuff, good or bad.

So, next time someone feels the urge to whinge about "my local dealer was a quid more expensive than Ebay" have a think. Would you start up a distributorship for the money? The hassle, the risk? It often requires balls my friends.
 
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manuka

Senior Member
Gentlemen: Whoa there Dippy- pink tablet time !? Least we meander too far from the plot here...

In essence the thread related to certain PICAXEs apparently being unavailable at local outlets,with subsequent postings then mentioning that direct purchase from the makers themselves could be an attractive & cost effective alternative.

Although naturally I've views on the matter,this did not imply local markups & support were to be sniffed at. Given that we're talking small hi tech items (rather than bulky gas stoves),today's global village however means ones suppliers can be physically almost anywhere.

This is especially an issue when costly inner city housing costs & rentals/traffic jams/staffing overheads/stress/parking fines/NOISE/transport & compliance costs etc have to be considered.These factors can seriously distort selling prices compared with those at provincial centres with lower overheads and stable staffing. I'd say that Rev.Ed themselves are typical of this,and if they were based in London's seething Tottenham Court Rd (instead of picturesque Bath) that their service would suffer & PICAXE prices may be near doubled! Stan.
 
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