slow editor

davidwf

Senior Member
I havent used Picaxe editor for a while but now find that every action is painfully slow.....loading a file/saving a file/ running the simulator

I have the latest version of Picaxe editor installed on laptop and a powerful desktop both running windows 10 64 bit and everything is fully up to date

Outside of Picaxe everything on the computers runs at blisteringly fast pace as I would expect

Has anything changed?....any other ideas
thanks
 

techElder

Well-known member
I have absolutely no idea what is happening, but I didn't want you to sit there "listening to dead air!" :D

It certainly has to do with the way your PE is installed, but I have no clue.
 

davidwf

Senior Member
appreciate that:)..........i listen to a lot of dead air......

I have un-installed it fully (with Revo un-installer), deleted all the registry entries and re-installed it both on the laptop and on my PC and the issue remains

e.g. I click the save logo, wait a few seconds, click the screen again and it says not responding.....eventually - which can be up to about a minute - the message disappears and all is fine again

No, I dont believe it either but that's what happens !
 

hippy

Senior Member
Nothing has changed about PE6 recently and I don't recall any "not responding" issues being reported. It would seem to be 'machine specific' though odd that you are having issues on both your desktop and laptop.

If you are seeing "not responding" on opening and saving files, the only thing I can think is that Windows has got some networked drive remembered, is trying to find that but can't, is bringing everything to a standstill.

I occasionally get Notepad grinding to a halt, hangs for a few minutes, when trying to open or save files after having loaded or saved to another PC on the network when that's no longer powered-on.

Everything about PE6 running slow though suggests its something more. It could perhaps be an anti-virus issue, or something else running in the background, perhaps even something Windows related. I have to admit that my Windows 10 system does slow down at times, particularly after turn-on, but again odd that it only seems to affect PE6 and also affects both desktop and laptop.

If it is Windows 10 hammering itself into oblivion - and I've had that - leaving it powered-up for the best part of the day may hopefully have it sort out whatever it's trying to do. It would be worth checking Updates to see if it's trying to download gigabytes of upgrade but failing, starting again.

Apart from running anti-virus checks, using Ctrl-Alt-Del and Task Manager to see what's running when PE6 is active, I'm not sure what to suggest. Something odd is going on but it's going to be hard to guess what that is.
 

hippy

Senior Member
Hmmm.... I note that it doesnt seem to happen if the terminal window is closed....
That cross-posted with what I was writing above.

Try disconnecting the AXE027 from the PICAXE but leaving it plugged into the USB and seeing how that does. Check that Terminal is using the correct AXE027 port.

If that doesn't fix things, select COM1 or COM3, close PE6, unplug the AXE027 from the USB, start PE6 again and see if that's any better with the Terminal open.
 

davidwf

Senior Member
Thanks hippy,

Both machines are bang up to date on all fronts (I am rather anal about that o_O), both are quite new high spec I7 64 bit based machines with fast SSD's and plenty of RAM

No other programs exhibit any similar issues at all

I know exactly what you mean about windows battling away on the hard drives - but it's not happening here
 

davidwf

Senior Member
still having issues with "not responding" when opening or saving files - regardless of whether the terminal window is open or not
23244

opening a files can take 20 seconds or so before it appears on the screen
during this time you cannot scroll any existing files or move the window etc.
 

hippy

Senior Member
It's just part of my screen dump !
Yes, but why does it appear to be inside PE6 ?

We would recommend closing all other apps when trying to get to the bottom of whatever issue you are having as those may be what's causing the issue.
 

davidwf

Senior Member
it isn't !..... it's just part of my desktop background - one of my shortcuts in the bookmarks bar!.......rest assured nothing else is running in background (or in fact at all) :)
 

hippy

Senior Member
So what seems to be happening is PE6 tries to open a file and redraw itself, but it stalls for some 20 seconds and allows the desktop to show through at that time.

PE6 has likely made a call to open a file, Windows has said 'hang on a second', then spent much longer than a second waiting to see if something it thinks should be there is, until finding it isn't, and then allowing things to continue as they should have done.

In the meantime, something else within Windows has noted PE6 has been stalled and has marked it as "Not responding"

That would also explain why the issue affects both laptop and desktop if both have used whatever has now gone AWOL.

That would tend to support some networked or previously mounted drive, or resource not being accessible, things grinding to a halt until Windows decides it can proceed.

That would also explain why it only affects PE6 and not other apps because it's only PE6 which has previously accessed whatever has gone AWOL, not those other apps.

The 'off the top of my head' things I can think it could be are a networked drive, NAS or similar, a USB hard disk or memory stick, perhaps previously used for backup, or maybe something Bluetooth or wireless related.

Bluetooth is notorious for pretending devices are present when they are not. They are only revealed to not actually be present when referenced and Windows has checked if the other side is there or not. Windows has to stall while the Bluetooth stack tries and make a reconnection to something no longer there, only discovering it isn't after some time, when the Bluetooth stack times out. The more devices it thinks are there, but aren't, the more waiting for timeouts there will be, the longer a stall may last.

Have you used any Bluetooth devices, any of which may have created virtual COM Ports ? It might be worth checking Device Manager to see what COM Ports it is showing.
 

davidwf

Senior Member
thanks for the comprehensive reply !
Agree with your thought as to saving to NAS (although all other programs word/excel etc) all save instantly
however, it also happens if I try to open or save a file on my laptop (fast laptop with SSD) and also on the PC (very fast PC with SSD)...none of which makes any sense to me

I think the background issue is irrelevant - it just happened to be there when I edited the screen dump

When it displays "not responding", although I can move the mouse, I cannot for example get to the desktop or do anything else with the computer until it times out

here's a fresh screen dump to keep you happy :)
23246
 
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Hemi345

Senior Member
Go into the PE editor options and see what the paths are set to under the "File" and "Backup" sections. Maybe turning off automatic backups (if enabled) or setting the file paths to something other than the default will have some affect.

Since it's happening on both computers, I'm wondering if you have something configured in your Windows 10 account profile. Are you using a Microsoft account to sign in? If so, Microsoft will attempt to sync your settings across multiple devices so your experience is the same no matter which device you're on. Maybe check this out: Start Menu -> Settings (gear icon) -> Accounts -> Sync your settings
to see if a setting jumps out at you. Like, is your default documents folder pointing to OneDrive? That could explain the slow open/save operations depending on how you have OneDrive configured to keep your files in sync.

Otherwise, maybe something you've installed on both machines has caused an issue with the .Net framework required for PE. Maybe double-check that it's enabled and is the version required by PE:
.Net Framework 3.5.1
Windows 10 - Press Windows keyboard key, type in "Windows Features" then enable Microsoft .Net Framework 3.5.1 in the list that appears
 

hippy

Senior Member
Agree with your thought as to saving to NAS (although all other programs word/excel etc) all save instantly however, it also happens if I try to open or save a file on my laptop (fast laptop with SSD) and also on the PC (very fast PC with SSD)...none of which makes any sense to me
It's not what you have or are saving to which affects things, but what Windows guesses you might potentially be going to save to. If it knows you have accessed something in the past it can try to find that in case you choose to select it again, even if you have no intent to.

That's the problem I sometimes see with Notepad as reported earlier. It remembers I had saved over the network in the past, checks to see if where I saved to is still there, and stalls until it accepts it isn't.

The aim is presumably to save time when I do select where I last saved to again, but it only adds an unwanted unnecessary delay when I don't and never wanted to.

I think the background issue is irrelevant - it just happened to be there when I edited the screen dump
It's not a part of the problem per se, but can be an indicator of what is going on, where the stall is occurring.

Here it seems to be after a file is selected but before the file has been loaded and the screen redrawn. So it seems it is something between those states which is stalling and it can provide an insight into what could be causing the stall.

When it displays "not responding", although I can move the mouse, I cannot for example get to the desktop or do anything else with the computer until it times out
Windows has tiers of priority so that's to be expected. The mouse can move even while some parts of Windows are stalled, which stalls PE6 and the desktop manager.
 

davidwf

Senior Member
Go into the PE editor options and see what the paths are set to under the "File" and "Backup" sections. Maybe turning off automatic backups (if enabled) or setting the file paths to something other than the default will have some affect.

Since it's happening on both computers, I'm wondering if you have something configured in your Windows 10 account profile. Are you using a Microsoft account to sign in? If so, Microsoft will attempt to sync your settings across multiple devices so your experience is the same no matter which device you're on. Maybe check this out: Start Menu -> Settings (gear icon) -> Accounts -> Sync your settings
to see if a setting jumps out at you. Like, is your default documents folder pointing to OneDrive? That could explain the slow open/save operations depending on how you have OneDrive configured to keep your files in sync.

Otherwise, maybe something you've installed on both machines has caused an issue with the .Net framework required for PE. Maybe double-check that it's enabled and is the version required by PE:

nope, not signed in with a MS account
no one drive account
net framework 3.5
automatic backups not enabled
default documents folders both blank
 

davidwf

Senior Member
nope, not signed in with a MS account
no one drive account
net framework 5.5
automatic backups not enabled
default documents folders both blank
 

john2051

New Member
Hi, if it's any consolation my three pcs all show the same thing (not responding) etc. If you wait, they work. But as you say it's agonisingly slow. Mine have only started to do this since about three windows updates ago. I also get delays in explorer if I right click on any file to show properties. On mine now though, the slowest thing is showing picture files, they used to be near instant, now the first one of a session can take almost a minute. I may be wrong, but I think our problems are windows related, pe6 runs fine on my laptop which still runs windows 7.
regards john
 

davidwf

Senior Member
yes, that IS consolation - thank you.... looking back I dont ever recall having this problem before - but I havent used the editor for quite a few months so it could well be windows update related.....why not, the updates fkd up loads of other stuff! :(

Wonder whats causing it though.....
 

OLDmarty

Senior Member
Wow, i feel for you guys suffering this problem.
For the record i only run Win7 machines & laptop with PE 6.1.0.0 and they never have a problem.

It seems win10 (updates) has caused a major problem with PE ???

I wonder if there's a .ini file somewhere in the PE folder(s) that you can edit out any paths to (ex) networked drives etc.

On a side note, has anyone tried running a virtualbox Win7 session in Win10, and see if the virtual Win7 machine runs with PE in a faster manner???
 

inglewoodpete

Senior Member
Wow, i feel for you guys suffering this problem.
For the record i only run Win7 machines & laptop with PE 6.1.0.0 and they never have a problem.

It seems win10 (updates) has caused a major problem with PE ???

I wonder if there's a .ini file somewhere in the PE folder(s) that you can edit out any paths to (ex) networked drives etc.

On a side note, has anyone tried running a virtualbox Win7 session in Win10, and see if the virtual Win7 machine runs with PE in a faster manner???
Not all Windows 10 machines have the problem, Marty. My W10/64 is fine with (admittedly) PE6.0.9.1. (I've not updated to 6.1.0.0 because the Revision History does not indicate any changes that I would benefit from.)
 

OLDmarty

Senior Member
Not all Windows 10 machines have the problem, Marty. My W10/64 is fine with (admittedly) PE6.0.9.1. (I've not updated to 6.1.0.0 because the Revision History does not indicate any changes that I would benefit from.)
Interesting, i wonder if the problem occurs in Win10 'Home' as well as 'Pro'? or do we simply have to rollback a few updates until we find a faster version to run PE correctly.
It'd be nice if we can get the Win10 users to provide their version/build number of Win10, so i can find a definite version where PE does work fast.

With any luck, Revolution is discussing with Micro$oft the changes that have crippled PE so they can fix it.
 

techElder

Well-known member
discussing with Micro$oft the changes that have crippled PE so they can fix it.
This really is how rumors start. (No offense meant, OLDmarty.) How could you ever get a count of how many installations are working without problem one? :D
 

hippy

Senior Member
With any luck, Revolution is discussing with Micro$oft the changes that have crippled PE so they can fix it.
At this point in time we really do not know that it is a Microsoft upgrade which has caused the issues you are facing. It could an Anti-Virus, a File History issue, or pretty much anything else. We can see the symptoms but don't know the cause.

In addition, the issues seem very specific and localised, limited to PE6 and mostly related to loading and saving. An introduced bug which was so localised, affected no other programs, is possible but would seem unlikely.

I haven't used my Windows 10 PC for a while so it's busy thrashing the hard disk, doing house keeping, downloading and installing upgrades. Once it has sorted itself out I can check how PE6 behaves for me.
 

davidwf

Senior Member
good luck with that..... suggest you install an SSD as it is sooooo much quicker......my old laptop used to take just under 2 mins to boot, with SSD it was just under 30 sec !!
 

hippy

Senior Member
I'm not really concerned about the speed, particularly booting, as I long ago adopted the 'get up, press the power button, then put the kettle on' approach. However long it takes it'll be done when I sit down in front of my monitor with a cup of tea.

I mostly have Windows 10 for testing PE6 and getting hands-on experience as to where things are to be found and what pop-up messages may appear to help users who get stuck. A cheap, minimal memory, slow disk, box does just fine for that, and is surprisingly sprightly once running.

The problem, in not using it regularly, is that all the regular upgrades queue-up and then all have to be done at once; hence a 1.3GB download over the last couple of hours. And that inevitably leads to installation and replacement of multi-gigabytes of code which takes it time. And then there's the obligatory restart with it's 'saving settings' and 'setting up Windows' delays.

I can't really complain as it's no worse than leaving 5 minute a day jobs to the end of the month, and then having to wait until they complete rather than done when they can be left to complete at leisure.

Anyway, things seem to be progressing smoothly and I should soon be able to get back to using it.
 

lbenson

Senior Member
Other than slow initial startup (like maybe 15 or 20 seconds, loading multiple programs when starting a .WSP file), I have not encountered slowness problems with PE6 on Win10-64 with latest upgrades, so it wouldn't seem to be a categorical problem with PE6 and Win10. Once started, loading or saving programs is quick enough so that I don't feel any disruption.
 

Hemi345

Senior Member
I have PE installed on multiple computers and have the same/normal experience as LBenson. I believe the issue is with a piece of software or configuration that Davidwf has installed/configured that is common to both machines. I don't think we can pin this down to a driver or Microsoft patch since if that was the case, I believe we'd all have this issue.

Maybe try using the Process Viewer to see if you can see another application get active when trying the open/save operation. LINK to Process Viewer Another tool is "Process Explorer" from Sysinternals.com that will show you a threaded view of processes and you might be able to see something tying up the machine.

The only other way to get to the bottom of it would be for Davidwf to get another machine or use one of his current ones to install of Win10 fresh (fully patched) and then before installing anything else, install PE6 on it and test opening and saving files. If all is good (as it should be), start installing the other applications that exist on the other machines while testing PE6 after installing each one till the culprit is found.
 

hippy

Senior Member
Getting back to my box took a little longer than anticipated but it's all up to date as of today -

Windows 10 Home Edition (64-bit)
Version : 1903
Build : 18362.449

PE6 (6.0.9.3) worked just fine, same as it always does, no delays on opening or saving files, nor when simulating.

Included in the SysInternals stuff which Hemi345 mentions is I recall a file access logger which might also help. That should show when the directories are being read as an Open or Save dialogue pops-up, when files are read when that's done.

Saving a file in Notepad, using the PE6 Open Dialogue, loading a file, in quick succession, might show where any long delays are occurring or what may be going on.
 
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