Skype and the forum

[hippy]

There are of course those people who can just turn up and talk with little preparation on almost any subject and have instant audience rapport.

Most are those we consider as successful TV and Radio presenters or after-dinner speakers but I'm sure there are plenty out there who don't have the fame or fortune who are just as capable. On the other hand I've sat through some YouTube offerings ( and it has to be said, some of the older Open University programmes ) where there's definitely something lacking.

One thing I would say for anyone who wants to try it, YouTube, Podcast, Instructables, Make, personal web site or whatever - for PICAXE or anything else - just do it. You'll either enjoy it or find it's not for you, but you'll never know until you try. Once you find your ideal media it can be a great source of enjoyment and personal reward.

 

[manuka]

SS: I'm afraid "the best ones" comment is rather the point. Even something simple could take several hours organising & may cause others to cringe as being too light hearted, or out of focus, or too blue, or @#*%^ sound track, or "What WAS that he said ?", or "that daft bugger down under again", or ... See the likes of a 1 minute 20M/7 segment LED/DS18B20=> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw0lHWN1pj0 I rustled up last year.

Of course,even in today's exalted AV age, the ability to randomly access the message is still tedious compared with the ease of running ones eyes over the text/flipping pages.

FWIW after dinner speakers worth their salt usually are usually VERY suitably bribed. I've done more than a few myself, & expect at least "expenses" covered to make up for the years of training, stress and polishing such "impromptu" presentations entail.

 

[SilentScreamer]

SS: I'm afraid "the best ones" comment is rather the point. Even something simple could take several hours organising & may cause others to cringe as being too light hearted, or out of focus, or too blue, or @#*%^ sound track, or "What WAS that he said ?", or "that daft bugger down under again", or ... See the likes of a 1 minute 20M/7 segment LED/DS18B20=> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw0lHWN1pj0 I rustled up last year.

Of course,even in today's exalted AV age, the ability to randomly access the message is still tedious compared with the ease of running ones eyes over the text/flipping pages.

FWIW after dinner speakers worth their salt usually are usually VERY suitably bribed. I've done more than a few myself, & expect at least "expenses" covered to make up for the years of training, stress and polishing such "impromptu" presentations entail.

What I meant was a section of the forum, therefore no equipment is needed (pictures aren't needed for most things). There are examples (i.e. http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=11963) of threads already where this could be useful. It would only be like writing a normal (perhaps a little longer than normal) post. It could then be linked to by people so write the post once, use countless times.

 

[Tom2000]

Unless I missed it earlier in the thread, I'm wondering what the objectives of our hypothetical video course might be?

I've done some teaching, and I've produced some video training courses. (A couple of them were actually pretty good.)

We're talking an unpaid, volunteer effort here. Hypothetically, let's say that I was going to take on this project. I could see doing, maybe, three 1 hour presentations, before the project got to be a chore. So... realistically, what might be done in three blocks of instruction?

I can see some product line overview stuff done in a single block presentation. Maybe an overview of the Picaxe family, or the finer points of something like the X2 line. But something like that would be RevEd marketing material, and I have no desire to do that stuff for free.

I've done some very effective single-block stuff that covered the operation of one specific piece of equipment. Good, but I can't see anything useful in the Picaxe field, in the "how to" realm, presented in the one block format. I've done longer stuff, but that was edited-down tapings of my on-floor classroom presentations. (I was teaching my course, not making videos. The teaching came first, the videos came after the fact.)

On the other side of the coin, I've "attended" a few video courses that ran 20 to 30 hours, and were accompanied by a textbook or other written material. One of these, a set of physics lectures, was downright impressive. All were at least marginally effective. All but the physics course were criterion-based, using the textbook as a framework. All of the longer courses were an adjunct to a self-study program; they weren't the entire course of instruction.

My point is that I don't see anything worthwhile that can be done in a single block of instruction. I see lots that can be done in a long series of presentations, but there, you're talking a course, rather than a topic.

For the life of me, I can't think of something worthwhile that can be done within the time that someone might reasonably expend as a volunteer effort. Say, my hypothetical three instruction blocks.

So... for the person that originally proposed this idea... what, exactly, did you have in mind for your hypothetical volunteer to teach? I'm not saying that this whole homegrown video thing is a bad idea, but just saying that "it would be nice if someone would do some Picaxe video" without presenting some objectives, or at least a concept, will do nothing more than fuel a thread with a bunch of hot air. (which, by the way, it seems has happened... )

BTW... the longer video courses I mentioned were tapes of formal classroom training. If someone wants to do an effective Picaxe course, have your AV folks tape your ongoing Picaxe (and other applied electronics) courses. It's much easier to tape an ongoing class than it is to design and implement an entire course as a stand-alone video series.

So... in summary... what,exactly, do y'all want?

Tom

PS -- I had a definite deja vu feeling while reading this thread. IIRC, this mirrors one of the first threads I read when I first joined the Picaxe forum three or four years ago. And we still haven't reached a conclusion!

 

[jmumby]

I have contemplated making a video series covering the construction of my WPS project as it had a broad range of topics. I was gonna start out pretty basic with turning lights on and off etc. Then I found out just how much effort goes into making a video podcast. If you watch the hak5 video series hak5.org you can also watch them filming it at hakhouse.com you kind of get an appreciation that it's not just sitting infront of a camera with some speel. Not to mention the vast quantities of dutch courage it appears you need.

Sort of glad in a way I didn't as the 20x2 changes everything and dosonchip have finally come out with updated documentation.

 

[BrendanP]

I started this thread with the idea of a skype hook up no vid need be involved. If there was vid it would just be via web cam not pre-recorded so the presenter could show/demo something for a few moments that couldn't be explained verbally.

Hams have regular scheds where they meet on air with friends, this would be something similar.

No prep, no pressure, no headaches. The person talks for however long they feel they can on the topic be that 30 seconds or 20 minutes.

Listeners then ask verbal questions.

To stop the audio link getting jammed with people coming in on top of each other listners could have the chat window (which is typed text) open as well so listener Joe Blogs in Dog &^%$ Idaho can type in "I've got a question" the presenter can then verbally say "yes Joe go ahead with your q" and then Joe spills his guts.

If other listeners disagree with the answer they can offer their view.

I would quite happily speak. I feel my electronics knowledge is not up to scratch however.

I could speak on the process of say filling US patent applications. I've got a few under way at the moment for mcu based gear. Or setting up a pty. ltd. structure in Au so if your equipment kills some people you don't get wiped out financially. I'm not patent lawyer or PL lawyer but at least you would know the basics.

I can speak on the process of taking a idea to a marketable product which I have also done in the last few years.

There isn't too much to tell there really other than its a enormous amount of work and most people are very negative and have no vision.

 

[Dippy]

"...and most people are very negative and have no vision."

- I find that insulting and ungrateful considering the hours and hours people have put into assisting you with your queries over the period of your Forum membership.

I'm sure you could speak on a lot of subjects; but are you actually part of a chat line group where you sit for hours and hours answering questions?


People here, with the exception of Technical, hippy and Admin, are volunteers who spend time (usually) assisting others.
So, if people want to volunteer their time on Skype or text chatline then they are free to do so ; good for them if they do - and many would be grateful.

Some have done videos showing their projects and I'm sure that has been helpful and encouraging to others.

You may think we are all Old hacks without a life, but I can assure you that we don't sit on this Forum 24/7 waiting for questions.

 

[BrendanP]

Ease up Dippy. Reread my post and I challenge you to show me where it says you or anyone on this forum is negative and lack vision. I'm very grateful for the help I have received here. I always try and express my thanks to people when they answer my queries.

I'm making a observation about my experience developing a product.

I stand by that observation.

I've learn't now not even to discuss what Im doing with most people. At best their eyes glaze over, espescially at mention of tech details or difficulties and they'll look at you with a smug condescending smile that says "you idiot, don't you know everything in the world magically appears in containers at the docks, it isnt designed or made by people".

At worse they'll out and out disparage what you're doing, of course they never had a original thought or idea in their life but they feel well qualified none the less to sit back and judge others who have.

 

[hax]

Has anyone seen the fantastic sparkfun live web tutorials??

The last one I attended was on at 5pm Colorado time, which made it 11am Melbourne Australia time. So no red eyes for anyone.

The tutorial was about using Eagle PCB layout editor.

It was absolutely fantastic. All they had was a basic setup. One camera, one headset mic, and the ability to switch from the camera to the PC monitor.

It is much easier for me to follow a video than it is to read pages of information in a manual.


There was another one the other day on SMD soldering techniques.

Two thumbs up for sparkfun providing these free tutorials, and they didn't even plug any of their products.

 

[Ralpht]

And just to throw a sideways but no doubt negative slant on the above discussion - how many of us use Skype and like it?

I've tried it a while ago and the quality was terrible. No it's not my hardware limiting it either. I have the latest dual core "Wintel" all singing and dancing box with a high speed cable connection, so my equipment was not the limiting factor.

While I agree the basic idea sounds good, there are many practical difficulties that woult make it difficult to implement.

 

[manuka]

Ralph: But what was at the other end-barbed wire feed & a 300 bps modem? Global Skype style AV calls here in Wellington NZ are now usually of exceedingly high calibre. We've just had an extremely long session (WiFi our end) with a contact in rural Sweden, with AV quality almost beyond belief. Stan

 

[BrendanP]

As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread I routinely skype my mate in Bicester , UK.

The audio is crystal clear, far better than telephone. I can hear the birds singing outside his room through the open window as we chat.

I have a three year old poverty pack notebook and use the built in mike and speakers.

 

[Ralpht]

Ralph: But what was at the other end-barbed wire feed & a 300 bps modem? Global Skype style AV calls here in Wellington NZ are now usually of exceedingly high calibre. We've just had an extremely long session (WiFi our end) with a contact in rural Sweden, with AV quality almost beyond belief. Stan

Stan:
A piece of wet string with a tin can tied to the end, just as it should be.
You telling me that I can now use dry string? Wow !

Back when I first tried it, the audio quality was very choppy with a lot of dropouts and the audio sounded like it was coming from the bottom of a deep well. Almost like the bandwidth was well under the minimum of 8K needed for decent audio transmission.

I think I'd better look into this a bit more.

 

[manuka]

Ralph- improvements have been near exponential. I well recall an VOIP call to a UK mate ~2001 (which probably wasn't Skype then), of tin can/barbed wire/drain pipe/chain saw calibre. It further "featured" voice delays as long as 10 seconds, with a response akin to waiting for red traffic lights to change. Stan

 

[Ralpht]

10 second delays - I would have gone mad and thrown the equipment out a window.
During my time with the RAAF I used to do a lot of work with satelite comms, (Defausat), mainly the maintenance of the ground stations. During testing I could never get used to the 0.75sec round trip delay and it used to pee me off quite a bit. . 0.75 sec doesn't sound much but it is a real effort to maintain a conversation under those conditions. Doubt I would have survived with a 10sec delay.

Time marches on and thinks improve? all the time (maybe not everything improves).

I guess Iwill have to get a new Skype account and break out the gear to try it again.

 

[nbw]

Welcome to the Picaxe Support Line. Your call is important to us. Please note that when connected to an operator, your analogue call may be converted to 10-bit digital and recorded on a 24LC16B for training and service improvement purposes.

 

[nbw]

p.s. for all those leg men on the line..........

In reply to what are you wearing, this is for all the men who like a fine set of pins.

 

[MPep]

Ralph,

I have just tested Skype via a satellite link. Check out this equipment Satellite terminal.
Although there is always a delay, when using IP, I did not notice it too much.

The delay you refer to, occurs when using an audio circuit. And yes, it is annoying.
The above mentioned terminal uses the Inmarsat system. This is Geo-Stationary.
When using the Iridium system, there is a similar delay but it depends how far away from the Earth Station you are. The signals are bounced from satellite to satellite until it reaches the Earth Station.

Just for your info really.

 

[Ralpht]

Thanks Mpep,

Will look into it some more.
The equipment Ronnie RAAF used was old but very reliable. The upside was high reliability / survivability of massive abuse. Bullet proof even. The downside was the older technology, which had it's limitations - analog voice paths were especially susceptible to delays, hash etc.