Product to market

crazynight

Senior Member
Does anyone have any experience on taking an item they produced to market? I believe there are tests etc you have to undergo before what was a hobby item can be sold or even given away FOC. Seems that bureaucratic red tape restricts the sharing of good inventions.

Any advice is welcome.

Am UK based.
 

bpowell

Senior Member
I'd be curious as well...I'm US based, and I have a friend who would like to take an invention to market...I'm not sure what kind of certifications are needed...this particular product is wearable electronics (al-la Lillipad type stuff...)
 

Dippy

Moderator
What is the market (i.e. the target)? (Humans or MOD?)
And what is the product?

If it is something of great importance I would seek advice from experts.

I've only ever done things through work where someone else sorts out Type testing etc. and someone else pays for it...
So, I think you'd better expand before someone write 5 pages.
I think someone here (UK based) has spent some time on EMC testing, but you'll need to give more details to see if there are things in common or if even relevant.
 

crazynight

Senior Member
Its the flyball (dog racing) timing system I have been working on. its undergone testing and refinement. A few teams have shown interest in buying sets from me but I am reluctant incase the red tape catches up as I have read the fines can be high.
It consists of:
5 LED lights
ir sensors
Picaxe chip
A timer
few switches
No RF, all runs from 12v so no 240 to worry about.

this is a quick video of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51DjVsiYOR0

The final version with have a different timer but this is it in principle.
 
Last edited:

RexLan

Senior Member
In the US I would produce it and sell it as you please if it does not require FCC certification and connect to PSTN for example. I designed/built/distributed 5 telecommunication products nationally for many years and the only certification I obtained was for the PSTN interface.

I can't see why the government would have a nose to stick in it or anyone else for that matter, other than to stick you for taxes or something, if it is just a simple timer, no RF. Maybe different over there?
 

rq3

Senior Member
Does anyone have any experience on taking an item they produced to market? I believe there are tests etc you have to undergo before what was a hobby item can be sold or even given away FOC. Seems that bureaucratic red tape restricts the sharing of good inventions.

Any advice is welcome.

Am UK based.
You will need to research this VERY carefully. Sometimes the regulations come from many different agencies, and sometimes they are not as bad as you might think. I'm in the US, so take all of this with a large grain of salt.

First, there is ROHS (Reduction of Hazardous Substances). Basically, a list of materials, like lead based solder, that are forbidden. In my case, this doesn't apply because it's a transportation product.

Next is EMC (ElectroMagnetic Compliance). Even if your product doesn't intentionally use RF, the fact that it contains a microprocessor switching at high speeds MAY mean that it must undergo EMC testing.

Finally, safety testing. I can't comment on this. In the US, if it's battery powered you're pretty much home free, with no UL testing needed. Usually. Depending on the product and it's intended use, there MAY be flammability tests required.

There are companies that will handle all of this for you (for a hefty fee), but a very close reading of the regulations will often give you "wiggle room". In my case, one federal agency takes precedence over all others, and they were responsible for granting production approval. It cost nothing but a LOT of my time, and many revisions of the Installation and Operation Manual. Like a dog with a fire hydrant, they basically wanted to pee on it and make it smell like it was theirs.
 

srnet

Senior Member
If it is something of great importance I would seek advice from experts.
Its not an easy area for sure.

Despite cynicism the requirements for what you can sell (in Eurpope) are not a tax raising regime.

For a lot of stuff you can 'self certify' for CE marking, no payment to government bodies or taxes involved.

But the devil in in the detail, to 'self certify' you need to be sure you meet all the requirements or Directives.

As to which directives would apply to this particular device, I aint got a clue.
 

crazynight

Senior Member
I think you may have to do some investigation for yourself.
I found a couple of vaguely interesting links.
http://www.cesolutions.eu/self-certification/
and
http://www.ce-marking.org/what-product.html
(accuracy unknown).

You say " a few teams".
Are you basically selling a handful to mates?
In essence yes they will be fellow flyballers which I will probably know; "selling" is also up for negotiation I am willing to help them build their own and provide the programmed picaxe as required if that helps, but even this friendly approach seems up for scrutiny as I have heard PLI (Public liability insurance) could be voild if items which are not CE are used. which would mean is a team member was to be hurt the builder would be personally liable.
 

Dippy

Moderator
Mmm... if that is the case be careful.
You can check that sort of thing with insurers.
I really don't know. PLI certainly does go 'up the chain' if things go wrong.
Time for a few phone calls tomorrow methinks.
Good luck and well done with the device.
 

rq3

Senior Member
Does anyone have any experience on taking an item they produced to market? I believe there are tests etc you have to undergo before what was a hobby item can be sold or even given away FOC. Seems that bureaucratic red tape restricts the sharing of good inventions.

Any advice is welcome.

Am UK based.
The only CE category that I can see would apply to you is the "Measurement Instrument" item, along with possible EMC issues. All I can say is read the actual regulations. I guarantee you will run into "Aha, well that leaves me out, I'm clear" as you go along.
 

flyingnunrt

Senior Member
Crazynight, Are you detecting changeover faults? Looks like you have two beam gates.
You could probably get some sort of professional indemnity insurance.
 

Jeremy Harris

Senior Member
Much of the regulation comes from the EU and is standardised. The main areas that may apply are:

EMC certification against the EMC Directive. This may involve testing for unintended emissions and susceptibility to induced (via power cables, for example) or radiated (from nearby transmitting devices) interference that prevents the device from functioning as intended. Generally the latter part may not apply if the device is fail-safe, in that no hazard would be caused if it was susceptible to interference.

Approval to the Low Voltage Directive applies to any device that operates at, or has voltages in it, that exceed 75V DC or 50V AC. Most battery powered Picaxe projects would be exempt from this, but if used with rechargeable batteries then the charger needs to be approved.

Compliance with the ROHS requirements, which means ensuring that there are no hazardous materials above a certain limit within the product. The most obvious being lead in solder, hence the insistence on the use of lead-free solder, but there are other materials to look out for in components, particularly things like cadmium and beryllium.

If you want to have the product CE marked in order to show that it is compliant with the EU regs, then this has to be approved by a Notified Body. You can self-certify in some areas, but you don't have the authority to use the CE mark without the approval and registration of the product with a Notified Body. In order to get this approval you will need a form of quality assurance that provides as a minimum traceability and certificates of conformity for all materials used, and may be subject to audit to make sure records are being kept.

There is a way around this that I have used for hobby projects (and I used to be Head of Type Approval for all UK marine radio, radar, safety equipment and nav aids, and a Notified Body) and that is to sell kits of parts. Because you're not selling a product, as such, you are not required to show that what your selling complies with any regulations, you just need to be comfortable that nothing your doing creates a liability that you may be unwilling to accept.

In my case I produced kits for a simple electronic capacitive fuel gauge for use with paramotors. This was battery powered, and I sold a circuit board, instructions and all of the components as a kit, with instructions as to how they might be put together. Because the fuel tanks of each paramotor were slightly different, I left it up to the kit builder as to how they wished to make and install the probe, and only supplied some lengths of concentric brass pipe in the kit that could be used to make a safe probe. I stressed that it was up to the builder to make sure this probe was safely constructed and fitted to the fuel tank, but did use a special chip for the sensor that was certified as safe for direct connection to such a probe. It was perfectly legal to sell these as kits and I did not require any form of certification or approval. Most who bought them had never used a soldering iron before, so I did offer a service where I would check any board post-construction, which in reality meant re-making a lot of solder joints much of the time.
 
Top