PICAXE with Electric Imp

Buzby

Buzby

Senior Member
It looks clever, too clever !.

From the software page :

When you click the upload button in the web-based IDE, your code is compiled into Squirrel bytecode and sent down to the device over the secure connection.
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All your development tools, applications, passwords, data, everything, is in the Cloud.

Not sure I like that.
 
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Jeremy Harris

Senior Member
Buzby said:
All your development tools, applications, passwords, data, everything, is in the Cloud.

Not sure I like that.
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Me neither! The more I look at the idea of the Cloud, the more I'm coming to realise that it is really just another way to make money. It's clever, as by promoting the ability to share freely (and charging everyone directly or indirectly for Cloud hosting.......) the companies promoting this are covering up the commercial drive behind it.

I've certainly got no intention of trusting data I've spent hours working on to some array of commercial servers with dubious security, possibly non-existent privacy controls in reality and who probably charge me one way or another for the "privilege".
 
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IronJungle

Senior Member
Don't fear the cloud. I mean, I wouldn't use the Electric Imp to log onto a web site and text bank balance reports to my cell phone or anything. But, come on, for non commercial hobby type applications it fine.

So.... any PICAXE examples yet?
 
Buzby

Buzby

Senior Member
IronJungle said:
Don't fear the cloud. I mean, I wouldn't use the Electric Imp to log onto a web site and text bank balance reports to my cell phone or anything. But, come on, for non commercial hobby type applications it fine.
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Did you read the comments on the Sparkfun page ?

See the one that mentions a video game called 'Watch Dogs' ? ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcMRkyoHKeA )
This is fiction, just like it was fiction to send a photo from a camera to a fax machine half way round the world.

Once a hacker gets into your Imp via the Cloud, he has access to your WiFi network - FROM THE INSIDE !

And the stuff from EI about commercialising the Cloud.

No, I'm not touching it.

Cheers,

Buzby
 
hippy

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
Buzby said:
Once a hacker gets into your Imp via the Cloud, he has access to your WiFi network - FROM THE INSIDE !
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Connecting an Electric Imp should be no more dangerous or risky than connecting any other device to your WiFi router.

The danger with any device on your side of the router is that if anyone can compromise it - or it is designed to facilitate it - then they can access that and through it potentially access everything else on your network.

As to fearing or embracing the cloud, that perhaps depends on what the definition of the cloud is. I would agree that putting usernames, passwords, access codes and device ID's for local devices on any public facing system increases the risk of compromise. There have been some embarrassing cases where people can watch personal web cams and take control of digital photo frames when made accessible through public services.
 
Buzby

Buzby

Senior Member
The people behind the Imp are a group of developers from Apple, Google, and Facebook.

Aren't these the companies that have already major issues with tracking iPhones, grabbing WiFi while mapping StreetView, sharing 'Everything with Everybody' ?

Are you telling me that given a chance, these people won't want to know where every Imp is, and what it's connected to ?.

The end user, even if he is an Imp developer, has no idea what Squirrel has put in his Imp.

I may be cynical, but how many non-cynics had their bank accounts drained by Nat West's super secure 'Get money from ATM with your phone' app ?

Cheers,

Buzby
 
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IronJungle

Senior Member
OK. Let's all agree then that the cloud is an evil place that will doom society. That said....

If there are any brave pioneers that have decided to spit in the face of the devil cloud and connected the Electric Imp to a PICAXE I would like to hear about their project and experience using it.
 
Buzby

Buzby

Senior Member
From Hugo, one of the Impeople, on the Sparkfun comments page,

The projected cost for that [ End user charging ] is $10/qtr for up to 20 devices (anywhere in the world), payable by in-app purchase.
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So the developer will have some financial payment method in the Cloud.

Who validates that a developer is not a hacker ?.

If fact, he'd hardly need to hack at all.

Sorry, but this gets scarier by the minute !
 
hippy

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
Buzby said:
From Hugo, one of the Impeople, on the Sparkfun comments page,
Click to expand...
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11395

The quote given is a little devoid of context but it all seemed pretty clear to me. If you buy an Imp module over the counter it's free to use. If you are a commercial customer and want to use / allow use of Imp modules with your products there's a fee either you pay or your customers can pay. So basically commercial customers will be paying for the infrastructure with non-commercial users getting a free ride on their backs.

I quite like the idea of Electric Imp. No different really to connecting a PICAXE to a local PC / Linux Box / Router / NAS and have that connect to the outside world except the PC is in someone else's house, there's less flexibility, and not everything is in a local sandbox. There are potential risks and I doubt everyone will like how it works but no one is forced to use it.

Setting aside legal issues, I'm quite sure someone will work out how to compile and download Squirrel programs locally, perhaps even write their own firmware for the Imp, and have it completely sandboxed on a local network with a local server rather than needing the cloud. On the other side of the coin there will probably be people using PC's to fake being Electric Imps. My Bush Internet TV box was meant to connect only to a cloud server but that connects to a PC in the back bedroom running my own server. It's common for people to hack proprietary routers to connect to other ISP's and the like.
 
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IronJungle

Senior Member
Buzby said:
Sorry, but this gets scarier by the minute !
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Okay. Let's all agree that it's terribly frightening. :eek:

However, I'm just looking for option and comment from those crazy 'throw caution into the wind' PICAXE types that live dangerously. The 'eat beans straight for the can' and 'drink water right from the garden hose types'. The true risk takers in the group. The 'nut jobs', if you will...

I'm just interested in hearing from one of those types who has experimented with this new Electric Imp device using the amazing PICAXE.
 
B

boriz

Senior Member
"As to fearing or embracing the cloud..."

"Let's all agree that it's terribly frightening..."

Fear? Nah. I just ignore/reject it for what it is. Another way into our private lives for anyone with a vested interest. Commerce or Government. Not much difference these days.

You really think there isn't, right now, some CIA spider indexing every BIT (Ahem) of available data for keyword searching and dodgy automatic flagging?

EG: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/30/british-tourists-deported-for-tweeting_n_1242073.html

This guy was put on a terrorist watch list, arrested at gunpoint, locked up for 12 hours, interrogated and deported. All for an innocent tweet made one week before. Now that's scary. If you're gonna fear something. Fear that.
 
Buzby

Buzby

Senior Member
Remember I wrote this :

Buzby said:
The people behind the Imp are a group of developers from Apple, Google, and Facebook.
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Today I got an email from Facebook promoting some app. The email looked like it came from my Sister.

It wasn't her that sent it, it was an official Facebook app using her identity.
I immediately went to my Facebook profile, and deleted 8 apps I never knew I had.

Spurred on by this I searched Facebook until I found this :
http://www.facebook.com/help/405183566203254/

This is a list of what Facebook says it holds about the User.
It's in alphabetical order, some of the good stuff comes low down the list.

( See this for how big Facebook is : http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/22/how-big-is-facebooks-data-2-5-billion-pieces-of-content-and-500-terabytes-ingested-every-day/ )

I cannot under any circumstances think that the cloud-based IMP, with a Facebook developer on the team, is not going to grab and disseminate as much information as it can about every IMP account, every IMP device, and every device each IMP can connect to around it.

I know I sound like a cynical Luddite, but I really believe that we are sowing the seeds of a terrorist mega-hack of such proportions that it will make 911 look tame. ( You think I'm exaggerating. 911 impacted the financial circumstances of maybe 30,000 individuals. A mega-hack could drain the bank accounts of 30 or 300 million individuals and companies, in less time than it takes to crash an airliner. How would our financial systems perform under that strain. ? )

I don't think I'll be taking to the streets with a placard saying 'The End is Nigh', but I do worry a bit.

Cheers,

Buzby
 
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IronJungle

Senior Member
I was the OP that was looking for comment. I went ahead and marched onward into danger (but I did use a router behind a router to iso my network) and we are finally in beta.

I'll post up a project page on my web site, but for now: https://twitter.com/OurCatDoor

Basically, the rig 'tweets' when one of of two cats moves through the cat door.
 
premelec

premelec

Senior Member
Does it tweet for skunks, 'coons and armadillos too? :) Or do you have an RFID going on the animal... ?
 
G

geoff07

Senior Member
I would love to play with yet another bit of technology. But I have too many unfinished projects already so there has to be a very good reason. So lets hear what the successes and benefits are, and the gotchas when they bite you in the bum. Then maybe it will attract me. Thats after I finish three major Picaxe projects, get a Raspberry pi and play with that, work out how to tweet (and why I would want to), upgrade my wife's laptop, get the home av system working properly, etc. and on.

I'm not afraid of trying things, just running out of time in the day.
 
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IronJungle

Senior Member
premelec said:
Does it tweet for skunks, 'coons and armadillos too? :) Or do you have an RFID going on the animal... ?
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It would, but the door only leads to a screened in sun porch that is off limits to wildlife. Otherwise I think we would come home and our house would look like a urban zoo.
 
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Hundred1906

Member
Have just started using the Electric Imp. Blinked it up and connected OK and uploaded data from the Imp onto the COSM server.

Right now am working out how to connect a number of different sensors via I2C. For this we will probably use a Picaxe as the sensors hub feeding into the Imp, not finally decided yet. Just working up the code for this right now using a 20x2.
 
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IronJungle

Senior Member
Any updates?

Hundred1906 said:
Have just started using the Electric Imp. Blinked it up and connected OK and uploaded data from the Imp onto the COSM server.

Right now am working out how to connect a number of different sensors via I2C. For this we will probably use a Picaxe as the sensors hub feeding into the Imp, not finally decided yet. Just working up the code for this right now using a 20x2.
Click to expand...
 
H

Hundred1906

Member
I am going to keep knowledge about the application close but am happy to share details on interfacing and any how-to's on bringing these two items together.

On the Imp side of the project most of the time has been spent establishing a database server. We started by using the COSM service but have dropped that in favour of interpreting the JSON feed directly into our own MySQL server - moving to remote hosting in due course. We have the Imp reading data from the 20x2 via i2c. However we had to get there by first using an Arduino to confirm that the Picaxe was functioning as we expected - it proved difficult to do this on the Imp itself.

Using i2c for this application is a pain and it would be much better if we could use Dallas or similar 1-wire. However the Imp does not support 1-wire (as far as we know) and in consequence the circuitry now has range extending buffers in plan, though these are only available as SMD - which is another problem.

The Imp itself works as advertised. It would be helpful if there was an emulator, but that could be said about many MCUs.

There are multiple Picaxe's, each fetching data from a couple of low level dedicated sensors, storing it and sending it on when polled. For this the 20x2 are overkill but we need the i2c slave mode capability. Once we get to the next generation we will look at alternatives but at this stage the Picaxe is a great prototyping tool.

Packaging is the usual nightmare as the sensors have to be clipped onto unusually shaped items. To make effective progress it has been necessary to master 3D CAD (to a limited degree) and make use of 3D printing services.

Hope the above answers the "updates" question. If there are more specific questions we will be pleased to try to help out.
 
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IronJungle

Senior Member
Yes. Thanks for the update and I absolutely understand some of the issues you mentioned.

Regarding COSM.... I had a few issues as well. I didn't want to act as my own server so I wrote a PHP script to communate the Imp data to the sen.se website.

Public info of my Imp and Raspberry PI examples of my sen.se data collection (graphs, etc.) at: http://open.sen.se/sensemeters/tab/3230/?preview=on

You can see my PHP source at whiskeytangohotel.com/ourcatdoor

Maybe that can help.


Now that I have Raspberry PI stick time it would have been my choice. It has a better user community and is easier to "talk" to the PICAXE.

Keep us posted.
 
A

AndyGadget

Senior Member
A couple for the catflap?

OK, in your language . . . ME OUT PROWL NOWWWW

Look out birdies, apex predator is coming to get you.

I'm hairy, I'm hungry and I'm here. Feed me!

All this sleeping tires me out. Time for a nap.
 
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