Now I am not moaning....

Steve2381

Senior Member
How come the cost of Picaxe chips hasn't dropped? They seem to have been the same price forever.

I need some 08m2 chips for my project, so chucked 4 in my basket in the Picaxe store.
But, once the vat and shipping are added, they just become expensive for an 8 pin devices .
It was £7.52 for 4 of them. OK.... that is fine. But add the vat and shipping (£3 seems a lot for 4 IC's).... it is over £12.

I ended up getting 5x 5v Arduino mini pro's delivered for less. I won't point out the obvious advantages to the Arduinos.

I will stick with Picaxe's for those little things, but sometimes cost does matter.
 

Circuit

Senior Member
...been the same price forever?

I must say that I haven't been tracking the prices of PICAXEs, but if, as you say, they have been the same price for a considerable period that means that in real terms they have dropped; given inflation running at 2.3% over the last two months and with the cost of the raw chips rising due to the fall in the Pound against the Dollar and so forth.

When you consider that the cost of development of the PICAXE development environments, PICAXE Editor 6 and Blockley etc., is there in the margins on the cost of the chips I think we are getting an absolute bargain. The software development hasn't stopped, nor the support so I really don't see why anyone would think that a price drop was on the cards.

I think that the PICAXE system offers excellent value for money.
 

srnet

Senior Member
How come the cost of Picaxe chips hasn't dropped? They seem to have been the same price forever.
Please explain why you expect the prices to drop ?

I ended up getting 5x 5v Arduino mini pro's delivered for less.
Do they have geniune Atmel processors or are they chinese rip-offs ?

Does the vendor that supplied these devices provide any support for thier products ?
 
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Jeremy Harris

Senior Member
There are an awful lot of Chinese fake "Atmel" chips around being sold in cheap "Arduino" compatible units. There's no intellectual property cost for the Chinese manufacturers making these, and that's where a major part of the cost comes from.

Every Picaxe chip is programmed with the Picaxe Basic interpreter, too, which adds a little to the unit cost, in addition to the fact that every Picaxe is a genuine PIC chip, not some backstreet Chinese fake.
 

MFB

Senior Member
It would be a bit simplistic to assume that the cost of a PICAXE is mainly dependant on silicone. The bare chips may have decreased but the cost of support and future product development normally increases.
 

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
For UK customers its worth noting that all electronic components, including microcontrollers, are bought into the UK via purchases made in USD. Therefore their raw cost has gone up considerably - by around 15% in the last year - by currency alone, before you even consider the supplier price increases and inflation etc. etc.

USD.PNG

shipping (£3 seems a lot for 4 IC's)

This shipping cost includes the actual postage, cost of the jiffy bag, labels and other packaging, and the time/labour taken to process the order. In reality £3 is actually less than the 'real' cost of processing the order in a UK based warehouse.
 

Steve2381

Senior Member
Well I knew it would not be a popular observation :(

Just saying. Last night I ordered 8x 08m2 chips and dil sockets. £4.20 postage. That is too much.

I ordered a huge amount of stuff at exactly the same time from Bitsbox. Hammond Enclosures, switches, connectors etc. Flat fee of £1.75 postage and packing. And its sitting here now, delivered in less than 24hrs.

Not sure I should return to this thread
 

srnet

Senior Member
I ordered a huge amount of stuff at exactly the same time from Bitsbox. Hammond Enclosures, switches, connectors etc. Flat fee of £1.75 postage and packing.
You cannot pack an ship a 'huge amount of stuff' in the UK for £1.75, the postage alone will be more.

So companies like Bitbox recover the true price of packing and shipping by charging more for their products, they have to.

So I guess Rev Ed could reduce shipping charges by increasing the price of PICAXEs, but you think those are too high already.

Do I presume from you comments that you have some experience of running a small business that involves shiping parts to people ?
 

Reloadron

Senior Member
If I buy from SparkFun Electronics here in the US I pay about $2.95 USD per 08M2 plus a few bucks mailing. So for example buying ten chips at $2.95 each would be $29.95 USD and about maybe $3.00 postage. They can cost less depending on where I buy from. That VAT is where it can hurt.

Ron
 

ValueAdd

Senior Member
Lets see:
A thread heading as:
Now I am not moaning....
then:
Just saying. Last night I ordered 8x 08m2 chips and dil sockets. £4.20 postage. That is too much.
finally:
Not sure I should return to this thread
that is akin to throwing the grenade into the room and running for cover . . . :rolleyes:

what part of the real cost do you not understand.
It is like going onto Ebay. For a given item (Looking at items in Europe, US and Australia -and ignoring china as a source) :
Some sellers have a low cost (to attract you) then have a postage value out of this world (maybe say US$150)
others have a slightly higher cost and fair postage (around $5 to $15)
yet others go for a higher costs still and free postage.

As another example:
Look at RS Components. Buy through RSOnline and irrespective of the value it is free postage. They have to be paid some how for the packing and shipping.
Its the higher cost of the components. But if they are the only source you pay your money and get what you want.

The free postage HAS to be built into the item cost.

As Technical has stated: the padded bag, the label, the postage and the time to collect from a shelf, put in a bag, add some bubble wrap and take to the P.O. all takes time and has a cost.

Ignoring the cost of the actual PIC chip, other costs have to be amortised over the sales as well including cost of storage space, computers, inventory system, the labour, and shipping costs to get in the components into the warehouse, and lots more.

so, Just saying.
It does have a real cost to send something by post and even more my courier.
and costs for the labour are not going down and for the components its not really are not really going down either.
 

Steve2381

Senior Member
Well I knew the response I would get, but hey ho.
I do post stuff out that I build in my workshop, so I do have a little knowledge of postage costs.

Actually, its the postage that wards me away, as it can double the cost of your small order (especially when I only need a few items like I did yesterday). If the price of the Picaxes were a little higher, but the postage dropped to a lower set fee... I think that would be better.
Anyway, stepping away now
 

srnet

Senior Member
Actually, its the postage that wards me away, as it can double the cost of your small order (especially when I only need a few items like I did yesterday)
Totally bizzare logic.

You now appear to be suggesting that for 'small orders' the postage costs should be reduced or even subsidised.

But you have also said that the postage for larger orders is too much ?
 

srnet

Senior Member
I do post stuff out that I build in my workshop, so I do have a little knowledge of postage costs.
OK then, back to your original comment;

"But add the vat and shipping (£3 seems a lot for 4 IC's)"

What would be the cost of the packing materials and postage ?

How long in time would it take to receive the order, get the parts out of stock, pack the item and apply the postage ?
 

stan74

Senior Member
The vat and postage is a lot so order several bits at once and just use 28x2's. which do everything.
I've got made in Italy arduinos and not made in Italy arduinos and can't tell the difference and the fake usb chip hasn't bricked them yet.
 

roho

Member
I've always thought that RevEd's prices are reasonable, very reasonable even. Comparing postage costs for like for like deliveries from the UK to here (Finland), they're very much on a par with other businesses. For sure, the P&P costs can add dramatically to the overall price of a small order, but the only way I can think of reducing that is to collect the items from source. That's totally impractical for most people, but perhaps Wiltshire to Bath is more manageable? With regards the cost of the silicon, the 40X2 is about £2 more than the raw PIC device in quantities of 25. That's a bit more than I was anticipating, but not anything excessive, especially bearing in mind that this is RevEd's primary source of income.
 

Goeytex

Senior Member
Yesterday I went to order a couple of Dev Boards (on sale) from Microchip Direct. Sale Price was $6 each. Then the surprise. The shipping was over $14 With Fedex as the ONLY shipping option. I did not complete the order as the value was lost due to the ridiculously high shipping cost. I will add these at regular price to my next MOUSER order and save more than the sale discount due to more reasonable shipping. Buying in onesies and twosies is always more expensive.

I don't have a problem with Rev Ed Prices. Sure I would like them lower and would probably order more RevEd stuff if they were. But the value is still there for most products.

As far as the prices reflecting ongoing development cost, I think that is a bit of hogwash. Nothing new has come out of Rev Ed in years. The NRE of doing the compilers was likely recovered long ago. Same with "support". Most of the (forum) support is by done by unpaid volunteers with Hippy and Technical contributing on certain issues, but I admittedly have no idea as to the extent of the other support offered or the cost involved, but I highly doubt RevEd has a fancy call center with 50 employees..

What I do not like is the misleading statement that "a small markup is added to the chip ...". A PIC18F25K22 costs ~ $2.00 each in volumes of 100. RevEd probably pays less. However a Picaxe 28X2 retails for $7.24 each. How is that a "small markup" ?. I have no problem with the markup itself. Just the statement.

With everything being said, I think that RevEd does a good job and offers quality products at fair prices. I could be wrong, but I do not imagine that Technical or Hippy live in $5,000,000 mansions and drive Lamborghinis.
 
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I can't believe someone thinks a little over £12 including postage in 2017 is expensive, personally I think picaxe chips are very reasonably priced, you can't compare the cost to fake arduinos from China, a fairer comparison would be genuine arduinos and then you'd find those considerably more expensive than £12 each, plus postage. In short don't compare apples to oranges.

I have no problem supporting picaxe by buying direct, for me the excellent service and support are more than worth the retail price of the products, and you get price breaks at only 10 pieces.
 

Circuit

Senior Member
As far as the prices reflecting ongoing development cost, I think that is a bit of hogwash. Nothing new has come out of Rev Ed in years.
Hmm... and where does that put Programming Editor 6, and the PICAXE derivative of Blockley? ...and the ongoing support for the specific educational curriculum in the schools that RevEd supports with the EDUQAS/WJEC A-Level Electronics course? Revolution Education developed a special free compiler for this purpose. And then there is the development of the AXE056 T4 Trainer board for schools...and the the EDUQAS/WJEC migration tutorials. This is all very much focussed on the UK but I think that you will find that development and support ARE ongoing for the primary market for PICAXE; and that is microcontroller education in U.K. schools. We are primarily hobbyists; I would think an important but secondary element of the PICAXE marketplace. You are right that much of the heavy earth-moving work was done some time ago with the compilers, but there is other development work that is reacting to the changing needs of the educational system. Undoubtedly we would all like to see a new compiler loading PICAXE onto a PIC32MXxxx chip but I don't think that the educational market is crying out for such a PICAXE28X3 at the moment. We can but hope...

Pretty clearly though, it seems that overall most of these postings seem to agree with you; "With everything being said, I think that RevEd does a good job and offers quality products at fair prices. " - a comment that I would endorse strongly.
 

newplumber

Senior Member
I have to add my 2 cents
@ circuit A + plus westaust's pebble/info free,free,free,free

If you/someone is complaining about picaxe prices try buying a BASIC STAMP
I believe picaxe could charge a account fee to use this forum but they don't because they are not greedy ( I hope :))
even if they did a small charge I would gladly pay the dues ..
No where on the internet but this forum have I read so many great people "wanting to help 4 free"
Oh and for arduino fans.... I bought one just to see if I could use it (me = electronic rookie)
Yes I got it working using libraries/others code but what a mess for me to change something plus C? forget that I love basic
Bottom line Picaxe made it possible for simple me to learn IC's with great ambition and if I can use it the rest of the world can too.
 

AllyCat

Senior Member
Hi,

I need some 08m2 chips for my project, so chucked 4 in my basket in the Picaxe store.
....It was £7.52 for 4 of them. OK.... that is fine. But add the vat and shipping (£3 seems a lot for 4 IC's).... it is over £12.
Well, you could have purchased them from CPC with "FREE" shipping for slightly less than £12. But they might not have arrived "next day", and you might need to be "at home" to receive them in a ludicrously large cardboard box. ;) Or buy 10 from Rev. Ed. (as I did) at their "quantity discount" price and almost halve the shipping cost per device.

Actually, the PICaxe Store did raise the prices of all their components late last year (but not the shipping, nor a few "Black Friday specials") by the same "round" number. But AFAIK it was the first time in at least 5 years and if I was the only one who noticed, then they obviously got it right! I must admit that I'm probably a "customer from hell"; I not only have the prices of any components of interest in a Spreadsheet, but also all the "breakpoints" of the graduated shipping fee scale. ;)

But as others have said, it really isn't reasonable to compare components that will probably take a month to arrive, might be "fake" (which covers a multitude of sins) and have little or no support, with small-quantity, "direct from manufacturer" UK components having "added value" and which will very pobably be delivered the very next day.

Cheers, Alan.
 

jims

Senior Member
I believe that it's a good thing that we each can have our varied viewpoints; and that we're allowed to express them here.... otherwise we might as well be in the "finished user projects robots" area of this very fine FORUM. JimS
 

premelec

Senior Member
I've been dealing with shipping charges and minimum orders and absurd fees for many decades... I guess they are part of the game - Mostly I've bought PICAXEs from PHAnderson - fast service and very small shipping charge and always packed well in lightweight materials. [BTW it Was Peter Anderson who introduced me to the PICAXE when I was buying other products from him].

FWIW one time ordering direct from RevEd UK to USA I noticed there was a huge shipping charge jump when another part was added though it wouldn't make a weight or size difference... just another quirk in price to ship tables - years ago so I don't know what the current situation is.
 
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