Measuring water level in bucket

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MarcusF

New Member
One of the things I do is raise snakes, which also means raising snake-food (Rats and mice).

We have two racks with rodents, and each rack has a 5-gallon bucket with water to supply the wee things with water.

One of the things I'd like to do as a project is measure the water levels and connect to a PC to read measurements and log levels.

I'm not worried about the interfacing or the PC software part, I'm a programmer.

But what I'm not sure about is measuring the water level.

Does anyone know if you can use the classical ir-measuring (Using something like this: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/28995/28995-ND/3523692?WT.mc_id=PLA_3523692 ), placed on the lid, facing down, to measure the distance to the surface of the water.

I've also thought about a pressure sensor placed on the bottom to measure the relative weight of the water (Not sure if that would work or not).

Those are the two ideas I think would potentially work best, but since I'm new to electronics I figured I'd ask, maybe someone has a better idea or has already solved this problem somehow else.
 
C

crazynight

Senior Member
M

MarcusF

New Member
It doesn't have to be too precise, it'll be used to alert when it's time to refill the bucket and log levels (Through PC software).

How does the probe work? I can't use anything that runs a current through water (Since it's used for drinking water for the rodents)
 
Steve2381

Steve2381

Senior Member
I have used an ultrasonic sensor board to monitor the water level in a large garden pond. Worked very well and was pretty damn accurate too.
 
M

MarcusF

New Member
Buzby, I like the scale idea, but the one you linked is over $200, plus shipping, but the idea could be used with the weight/force sensor idea I wrote about in the original post, using a force-sensor to measure the relative weight of the water.

Steve, that's excellent news, do you know what board it was?
 
Buzby

Buzby

Senior Member
MarcusF said:
Buzby, I like the scale idea, but the one you linked is over $200, ....
Click to expand...
Yes, that's the first I found. There are probably cheaper ones, but even hacking a set of bathroom scales will get you load cells and the mounting hardware ready built.
So much easier than building from scratch !.
 
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MarcusF

New Member
I can honestly say that I don't understand that post.
He says the strips are placed on the outside of the jug, how then can it measure anything?
 
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tony_g

Senior Member
in his post he is using the "touch" sense function which is supported by some of the chips.

if you use this function you dont actually touch a wire connected to the designated pin, you would have some form of material or seperation barrier over the bare end of the wire and that material is what you touch and it is picked up by the connection, i dont know if its referred to as capacitive touch??, but that is essentially what the jug is acting as.
 
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MarcusF

New Member
That's actually quite interesting, I like that idea...

Soon as my chips arrive I think I'll have a go at that.
 
Steve2381

Steve2381

Senior Member
It was a set of these :

http://www.techsupplies.co.uk/epages/Store.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Store.TechSupplies/Products/SRF005

I had it set in a IP rated box pointing down towards the water about 12" above. It monitored the water level and operated a valve to top up the pond when the water level fell 10mm for a period of more than 1 hour, and also stopped all the waterfall pumps if the level rose by 20mm instantly (otherwise it flooded the garden).
My original design had a digital readout of the water depth, but I removed that as it was a little overkill.
If the level rose by 30mm, it set off a small bleeper to draw attention to the fact that the pond was flooding.

I thought the winter would play havoc with the sensor, but 5 years on its still going fine.
 
P

PaulRB

Senior Member
Steve2381 said:
It was a set of these :

http://www.techsupplies.co.uk/epages/Store.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Store.TechSupplies/Products/SRF005

I had it set in a IP rated box pointing down towards the water about 12" above...
I thought the winter would play havoc with the sensor, but 5 years on its still going fine.
Click to expand...
Steve, I would like to know more about how you mounted the sensor in the box and protected it so successfully, for a project idea of my own. Holes drilled? Sensors projecting out/ flush/ recessed? Did you cover the holes with anything transparent to ultrasonic etc...

Cheers,

Paul
 
grim_reaper

grim_reaper

Senior Member
I second Paul's request for more detail on what you did Steve!
I want to do the same thing over my fish aquarium - but there's limited space between the water and the lid, so I need to know how close to the water surface the sensors can be mounted.
 
A

AndyGadget

Senior Member
I'd like to declare an interest here too as I'm just about to convert my manually switched solar powered pond topper-upper to Picaxe automation.
I'm wondering if the touch sensor method would work if the scenario was reversed, i.e. the two electrode strips inside a sealed plastic tube attached vertically to the inside of the pond.
Sounds like a project for next weekend.
 
Steve2381

Steve2381

Senior Member
Blimey... it was five years ago I built this thing.... let me think.
The sensor was simply mounted behind some very fine galvanised mesh (the mesh was tight to the sensors, so that the signal didn't bounce off the mesh). As it pointed downwards, I didn't see the need to waterproof it anymore than that. The sensors were recessed about 2" up inside the box.
The only issue I have ever had was when spider made his home in the bottom, but that is once in five years.
It was accurate to about 2/3mm if I remember rightly.
You can get fully waterproof ultrasonic sensors, but they are quite expensive and work on a different frequency.
I will have a look later and see if I can dig out the old code for it (It might have been on a basic stamp).
 
techElder

techElder

Well-known member
That's a good "weatherized" transducer (all aluminum), but when that is done the directivity of the sound is ruined. It basically emits sound in a round pattern. The 1/2 point (6dB down) is about 45 degrees +/- 15 degrees (their data sheet says 80 degrees.) There would be problems with false echos from all around it.

A good way to visualize it is the difference between a spot light and a flood light.
 
S

sedeap

Senior Member
Working solution

Hi pals...
1st... bear with me... not native english writer... LOL


Then... I had build some water-meter thingie for a chicken-raiser-feeder facility... or whatever be spelled... lol
The fact is... they rise poultry and need a warning when water tank is running out.
They use a big tank almost at soil level, just a few inches up... and this tank keep all drinkers full.
I put a magnet covered with 5 coats of paint (car paint) inside a fishing buoy (but any empty eyedrop or contact lens tear container do the job) and then I fixit aside to an inch of plastic pipe, I put a plastic rod inside a pipe, tall as the tank, and with a EOR (end of run) in both end-sides, put this gadget inside a water tank. In the Outside of the plastic tank, fix 5 reed switches (alarm cheapo type) and then read the "high" of the water trough the reed switches, keeping the last read as reference blinking a led slowly until the magnet reach the next level.
The picaxe was... an 18x if I remember well... but maybe you can do it with less point of control and a 08M.
Programming was bare simple.... just read the rswitches to look which is closed or keep the last read blinking as reference status at 5 mins or so.
They need also a warning buzzer and start the pump to fill the tank. (but maybe you dont need those)
Its simple and working for a 5 or 6 years until now... no complains, not broked yet.
(Before this gadget they use to have one volkswagen fuel tank sensor [mechanical-resistive] but not last due rust by condensation)

See U Pals...

:)
 
M

MarcusF

New Member
crazynights, that's awesome, the only ones I found were industrial ones and they cost like $200.

Yes, this solves the time-to-refill sensing, but I'm still curious about using one of the Ping sensors to measure level.
 
S

sedeap

Senior Member
Other cheapo water level

Sure, thats cheap.
But I understand you need know more than be noticed when the bucket is almost empty.

You also can buy this, and hang out from top of bucket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tank-Pool-Water-Level-Liquid-Sensor-Float-Switch-Switcher-GOOD-/290897337435?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43bad51c5b

or even DIY with a microswitch, just hang a piece of wood from it (with fishing line or plastic wire)
so when wood reach the lower level, it weight pull the line and activate the microswitch...

Widely used here to activate the pumps from a cistern.

See U pals
 
M

MarcusF

New Member
I can't use automatic refill without a microcontroller and timer, the bucket's used as a watersource for rats/mice, and every once in a while a valve leaks, causing the bin to flood.
Now imagine that with automatic refill...

I've thought about placing some form of moisture sensor in each bin, but that's getting a bit overkill, so what I'm considering is tracking the water level and map how fast it drops on average, then I can easily have it alert if the level drops abnormally fast.
 
S

sedeap

Senior Member
Do you have a pipe with nipples, for watering mices ?
if so, just put a piece of roofing gutters with some tilt under pipe to collecting dripping water in another bucket, lower.
Have an other system? maybe an open scoop with floaters... you can put under that another scoop bigger, or aluminum pizza dish and a piece of pipe make the drain-way to another bucket, lower.

For read with Picaxe you can use 5 of this cheap sensors hanged from the top of bucket at different hights
(maybe you can use a piece of pipe or wood for the task, and sit over the edges of bucket, just in the middle)
Then you can get fun programming the Picaxe.

C.U.Pal

:)
 
M

MarcusF

New Member
It's a whole rack system with bins, with the bucket on top, from the bucket there are rubber/plastic tubing that goes to each level and each bin, each bin has a spring-loaded mechanical valve.
The valve is attached through a metal mesh that's on top of the bin, the bins simply slide into place.

I really don't want to modify the bins if I can avoid it, rats and mice tend to find holes and things and chew on it, which is one of the reasons I decided not to put moisture-sensors in the bottom of each bin.

We have thought of just drilling a few small holes in each bin, since they have wood-chip bedding that absorbs water then if there's a leaking valve the excess water would drain down into the next bin below, and maybe a collection plate on the bottom of the rack.

More wet bins, but not a whole bin full of drowned rats.

That link isn't working for me (ebay.com seems to have issues today, I'll check tomorrow.)
 
S

sedeap

Senior Member
Some like this in video...
[video=youtube_share;6V-ZMWV0TqQ]http://youtu.be/6V-ZMWV0TqQ[/video]
So you can make a bunch of tiny holes near base of bin, 1mm each close enough, and outside a bin can fix one A.C. washer right angled (drainaje mouthpiece or funnel or plastic bottle neck) with tubing to waste collection plate...

If you dont want buy floating sensors, you can DIY one with a potentiometer with arm (like a servo shape) and a little plastic bottle as floater, then you can read it with ADC pin of Picaxe...

C.U Pal

:)
 
M

MarcusF

New Member
Yeah, that's the same thing we have, though I think we use bigger buckets and our racks are much bigger.

I'm not against buying floating sensors, I'm just trying to figure out what is the best solution.

I could even go the mega simple route and not use a microcontroller at all, just one of those float sensors, some wire, a light/buzzer and a powersource.

It wouldn't be an intelligent system but it would certainly do the job of notifying us.
 
S

sedeap

Senior Member
Simple and less than $2

Oh God.... Blasphemy !!!
How in the Lord's name you can tell us, you NOT use Picaxe at all !!!
..............
LOL... Just joking...


There are some like this sliding door alarm that fit your needs... just $2...
simple useful and Loud...


Just fix the magnet inside a fishing buoy or droplet bottle, tie to bottom of the bucket close to bucket wall with fishing line and put the alarm outside at convenient high fixed to bucket wall.
When water run out, magnet not near to alarm and.... you become deaf soon... lol

C.U Pal.

:cool:
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
I haven't read any of the linked threads etc. but could you make a capacitive 'dipstick' sort of thing?
Capacitive sensing sensing seems quite popular, I guess the accuracy depends on the gubbins you make it with as well as your electronic skill.
Though I think I'd have belt&braces float switch to prevent overflow.
 
B

besupreme

New Member
Capacity is a good idea. Put 2 isolated wires in the bucket. Build an oscillator using the 2 wires as the capacitor. If the water level is high, you have a low frequency. Build the oscillator with a 40106 and a 1 Meg resistor.
 
S

sedeap

Senior Member
Simple solution

OK... this is the simplest soluton... and cheapest.

Pic about Post #29

AlarmaTanqueAgua.jpg

Then, please tell us how you go.

C.U Pals.
 
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