Help - Serial to USB cable - driver issues?

[kvette]

I'm trying to program both an 08M and and 18x. I'm using a serial to USB adapter with the prolific chipset.

If I try using this on an XP machine, it will work either on the serial port, or using the adapter to the USB port.

At home however I have two PC's. A desktop with Windows 7 64 bit, and a laptop with Vista 32 bit.

-Windows 7
Everything seems correct, but the program will rarely finish downloading. It will stop at random places with an error as if the voltages aren't correct, or the connection has been lost.

-Vista
I can't even get the firmware check to work. I get the 0x1F54 comm error. I've found threads mentioning a change in drivers to the 2.0.0.7 version that fix this problem. When I download from the link located here http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/picaxe/software.htm something isn't right. Pointing the PC to the folder says that there is no driver there.

Any help on getting this to work on either PC?

(If it would be of use, I also have Ubuntu on the Windows 7 machine, but I'm still new to Linux)

 

[elios]

I have had this problem. The driver isn't properly configured for W7 yet.. I ended up using the onboard serial port which is half the speed. Does this for vista too. Just have to keep hitting the F5 key...

For vista(yuk), I think I ended up uninstalling the driver, then reinstalling it.

You should be able to point it to the folder and hit go, but I do remember it took a bit of fiddling to get it working on vista.

I also found that every now and then it would stop working on vista and would have to reinstall the driver...

 

[SAborn]

I have used many of the cheap ($2.00) Chinese made USB to serial cables without a problem, but the drivers will not work on 64 bit OP systems.

When installing the drivers you must use the self install from the disc, and not the operating system wizard.

When programming a Pic (not picaxe) through these cables they can run very slow, but by plugging the cable into a usb hub instead of direct to a usb port, it has increased the program download speed by 10 times faster.

I am not sure why this is but it works well.

As i could not work out how to attach a zip file here for the driver i use, you can find it posted for download here.............

http://ozelecforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=44

 

[Piers]

When programming a Pic (not picaxe) through these cables they can run very slow, but by plugging the cable into a usb hub instead of direct to a usb port, it has increased the program download speed by 10 times faster.

I am not sure why this is but it works well.

Possibly to do with port power limits, (500mA), was it a powered hub?

Piers

 

[kvette]

Thanks for the link, unfortunately that didn't do it.

So.... I'm out of ideas from here. The only thing I can think of is that the cable is a bit long, causing the problem with the Windows 7 PC, whilst Windows Vista still has a driver issue. Guess I may be looking for another PC for the time being.

 

[SAborn]

Possibly to do with port power limits, (500mA), was it a powered hub?

Piers

Thats the funny part it was not a powered hub, and only a cheap Chinese ($2.00) 4 port hub.

It also made no difference if the hub was a usb2 or not, the result was the same with a much faster download speed.

I had bought a bunch of these hubs to use for access to the 5 volt power from the usb as they have 2 solder tabs and make a very easy power supply and serial input for picaxe logging projects.

 

[Minifig666]

I'm truly shocked hippy hasn't jumped in with 'get a proper one, it'll be better' yet, so I'll have too.

Get an official one! While there is no problem with buying these things, they can be a pain to get going. I know they are costly and limited to a single purpose but It'll save you a lot of hassle.

Oh, and welcome to the fantastical PICAXE forum!

 

[John West]

Are you using anything else that's different between work/school and home? A different power supply perhaps? Gotta eliminate all the variables to isolate the problem.

 

[kvette]

Its a battery operated circuit. I also tried using a power supply and slowly ramping up the voltage to 5v to see if that made a difference. In the end, I got an old computer, installed xp, and I'll use it for the time being. I don't know what else to try from here.

 

[nbw]

When I use my USB-serial cable now, i.e. plug it in to my WIndows 7 machine, I get the 'Blue screen of death'. I have to use an old laptop with XP. Go figure!

The new machine is a 32bit, quad core CPU, new everything... plug in one cable - BOOM!

 

[hippy]

@ nbw : Is that with a Rev-Ed cable ( AXE027 or USB010 ) or something else ?

 

[nbw]

it is a DSE (local brand like Maplins I guess). I've used it fine for all SPacks on XP over the past 3 - 4 years, and it worked alright a few times on Windows 7, then blue screen ever since - complaining about ftdisys driver. I've refreshed the drivers etc, tried different USB ports to no avail.......

 

[SAborn]

Do everyone realize if you instal a driver for a cable plugged in to a usb port, the cable will only work for that particular usb port, and no any other usb port on the computer.

Each usb port must have the driver installed for its own port individually.

Each usb port will be assigned a serial port number and the correct port number must be selected for the port used.

Its best to use the same usb port every time and not swap to what usb port is avaliable.

I use the el-cheap-o Chinese made $2.00 usb to serial cables without any problems, and have for years.

Also supplied over 100's in kits without 1 complaint.

 

[inglewoodpete]

A tip for people with USB problems. I had USB ports misbehaving with some peripherals but working with others (XP Home, but should work for all OS).

You need a non-USB mouse or a mouse with a USB-to-PS/2 adapter plug: otherwise it's a bit hard to control things. From the Device manager, delete all of the device controllers. Reboot and then Windows will excitedly 'discover' them again and install the appropriate drivers. When loading the USB to Serial drivers for PICAXE, ensure that you load the correct version as per the PICAXE website, and follow the instructions to the letter.

 

[nbw]

@ Ingle: are those usb-2-serial drivers on the website for picaxe specific / rev-ed cables only?

 

[hippy]

The AXE027 drivers are Rev-Ed specific ( coded for a specific FTDI VID/PID )

The USB010 drivers are Prolific PL2303 generic ( coded for standard PL2303 PID/VID )

 

[picnut]

I am a little confused here. If I take a phone download cable, cut off the phone plug, I usually end up with three wires, TX, RX and GND. Now if I wire these directly into the standard serial port of a straight PIC it works OK. I cannot see how anyone could get a phone download cable to work direct with a Picaxe chip because the bit bashed serial port on C6 and C7 requires both the TX and RX signals to be inverted. An RS232 chips usually invert and another way is to do it with two simple transistors with an LED in the collector circuit and then you can actually see the PC and Picaxe talking to each other. If they do not have an inter-change, then the download does not happen. The Xino basic boards that appeared on EBAY today work with both normal PIC's and with Picaxe chips, but the inversion still has to be done 'off board' for the Picaxe chips, for example inside the AXE 027 cable.

 

[SAborn]

I am a little confused here.

Well you sure as hell confused me too!!

I dont know what you are dribbling on about, but 2 resistors is all that is needed for use with a serial port to program a Picaxe.

Yes Pics are a little different, but we are talking picaxe here on the picaxe forum.

There is no need for inversion of data and special boards needed.

A straight phone cable cut and soldered to a D9 serial socket will work just fine with a hardware serial port or a usb to serial cable.

 

[hippy]

But picnut is talking about "phone data cables" ( 9-way D to connector or USB-to-connector ) and, yes, it is all confusing.

It is mainly related to polarity of signals. What picnut writes is correct; the connector signals on a "phone data cable" will often have the wrong polarity so won't work with the PICAXE download interface and needs to be inverted to work.

While USB-to-RS232 implicitly defines the polarity, USB-to-TTL does not. That polarity may be the same as RS232, compatible with PICAXE download circuit, but often incompatible without inversion.

 

[inglewoodpete]

If, on the other hand, picnut is referring to a phono cable, meaning the 3.5mm audio cable plug used on the AXE027 then it looks a bit different.

@picnut. Clarification please! Name the source/model of cable and the real name of the plug. Many people refer to the 6P4C plug (sometimes called an RJ11 or RJ12) as a phone plug.

 

[picnut]

I meant exactly what I said, a phone download cable. There are loads of different types out there but I use the Nokia CA-42 simply because I saw it mentioned on the net. The CA-42 has a USB plug on one end an a blue Nokia plug on the other. One of the reasons why I chose this cable was because the PCB is in the USB plug. So all that is needed is to cut the blue multiway phone plug off the other end to reveal three wires, orange blue and red. Clones are also available out there that are wired differently, however the CA-42 cables that I buy for 99 pence each appear to be the genuine Nokia cable.

Thank you Hippy, it is always nice to hear from someone, who does know what he is talking about Hi! Keep up the good work.

 

[ciseco]

Hi,

I can see why there's quite some confusion, see if I can explain.

Those Nokia USB cables do USB to TTL, a PICAXE cable does USB to RS232, they are similar but quite different.

The main difference between them (as already stated) is polarity. This is quite easily "inverted" with very basic parts as picnut suggests (i've seen it done with just a pair of fets/resistors on a rev ed GLIC board)

To do a proper job of changing the polarity, you could "vero up" 50p of components. A TI MAX232 and 4 x 0.1uf's will suffice. Then I'd "suspect" you could use the 99p cable with a PICAXE (have never tried)

Without this "inversion" it's not going to work with a PICAXE. That includes the XINO with a PICAXE on.

I suspect picnut is suggesting that on a XINO you can use the cable alone, this is correct but only if you use a different type of compiler instead of the PICAXE editor. Perhaps us having a version for PIC and one for PICAXE has been the route of more confusion???

Miles

 

[hippy]

Those Nokia USB cables do USB to TTL, a PICAXE cable does USB to RS232, they are similar but quite different.

USB010 does USB-to-RS232, AXE027 does USB-to-TTL. Both use idle low ( or negative ) and active high signalling.

Other USB-to-TTL cables and modules may use the same but many will use idle high and active low signalling.

The real problem is that "USB-to-TTL" tells you the voltage ( though not always, as it may be used to mean 3V3 rather than 5V ), but not the polarity. It's both voltage and polarity which must be known in order to know how it must be connected, whether current limiting resistors and/or inversion is required.

 

[ciseco]

Very true, in my attempt to put things as simply as possible, I have fallen short of the proper technical terms, you were right to correct me.

Miles