HeartBeat sensor

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sedeap

Senior Member
*********
Hi Pal's

I've noticed about some heartbeat devices can detect a person in range... or maybe one animal.

I want to know how can be possible, and make some gizmo PICAXE powered by manage that.

Aplication? well... maybe be more effective than PIR's in alarms devices, or in animal & humans intruder detection or in some non vital medical support.
I found some cars aplication here (Volvo S80)
<External Web Link>
and details here
<External Web Link>

So if anyone know how we can do that...
Or even one directional detector to find one animal in the dark / fog / undersnow .

I heard about one militar scanner used in earthquaked debris zone to find survivors... ( but sounds expensive & unreachable for me )

Here when we had two Bombing attacks, only the use of trained dogs to rescue victims was available.

Not want any complicated like the Alien's detector device from the movie... hehehe, but maybe be possible to build some working gadget.

:eek:)

(Grammar fixed) Or at least I hope so...Sorry but English isn't my native language

Edited by - sedeap on 23/07/2007 22:00:25
 
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Michael 2727

Senior Member
Detecting a heartbeat at any distance is almost impossible, the medical profession
would pay billions to get their hands on such a device, not to mention tha armed forces etc.

PIRs work on body heat, they are tuned to a norrow band in the low IR region.

Inside a new Volvo the SPL (sound pressure level) background vould be like a sound proof room, they would have a better chance of detecting any person hiding, but it would be far easier to detect the breathing of any intruder.
They may have some sort of ultrasonic detector which detects small body movements.
I don't think the technology exists in the present day for reliable or cheap heartbeat detection at any distance.
Maybe one day. Some things on Star Trek are just made up, some may eventually even happen, but not this week <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
 
hippy

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
I'm having real trouble believing the Volvo &quot;Heartbeat Detector&quot; is anything other than Grade-A cowpat ( more likely over-marketing hype of what it actually is ), sold on the back of fearmongering to gullible and irrational people who scare easily.


 
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Dippy

Moderator
Have a nice cup of coffee hippy... it's not THAT bad surely?

Beam me up Scottie <A href='http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=6439' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a>


And if you have an accident in a Volvo it turns into a Bouncy Castle.
 
hippy

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
<i>it's not THAT bad surely? </i>

Depends if one reads the link you give which sells it as a safety device for having forgotten not to lock the children in the car or reveal someone accidentally trapped in the boot. or ... look at the Volvo TV advert where they sell it as a feature for detecting the axe-wielding, rapist, mugger, killer hiding behind the drivers seat.

Ford : ery sensible and, as revealed, not a &quot;heartbeat detector&quot; at all. Although it's odd it should only warn someone was left in the car, not that someone left in the car no longer appears to be, or has died.

Volvo : Grade-A cowpat and fearmongering.
 
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BeanieBots

Moderator
Wow, what a useful device. I'm forever misplacing friends and relatives. You know how it is, you all set off together, check in at the hotel. It's not till you go to pay the bill for the evening meal that you realise one of your party is missing because the tips don't add up. Now if your could sound an alarm to let you know you'd left one in the car....

The only bit that seems a little silly is the axe-wielding, rapist, mugger, killer hiding behind the drivers seat detector. As pointed out by Michael 2727, a solution to the remote heartbeat detector is not a simple task. So much easier to detect that a door/bootlid has been opened. Not to mention the 1/2&quot; drop in suspension due an extra 70Kg being present. Most cars already have these sensors to turn on the interior lights and even adjust the headlight angle. Still, you have to marvel at the 'life signs' detector that can discriminate the increase in capacitance of 100pF AND discriminate whether or not that increase was caused by a living object or a metal golf club. I thought those 'life sign' sensors that you see in all the movies were just science fiction. I guess Gene Rodenbury must have done his apprenticehip at Volvo.

Anyway, it must all be true, I read it in a newspaper AND in an article on the internet.

Do you remember that article in the 'Sunday Sport' about the Lancaster Bomber that landed on the moon?
 
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Ralpht

New Member
Well, after it's bombing raid on the Axis city on the far side of the moon, it had to land somewhere to refuel for the long(ish) trip back to England.

I'm also finding it hard to believe that a heartbeat can be detected any distance away from the person. My doctor at times has trouble hearing my heartbeat with his stethoscope and that is designed for the task.

More likely the Ford and Volvo have a sensor that can detect breathing, either via small pressure changes or by the sound made when a person breathes.

 
 
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papaof2

Senior Member
I have learned to take advertising with a grain (or two) or salt, but the &quot;beyond known technology&quot; ideas are sometimes predictive.

I'm dating myself here, but one of my favorite &quot;that's impossible&quot; editorials appeared when I was a kid and very much into the experimenters' mgazines.
The TV show &quot;Sea Hunt&quot; had an episode where they were testing &quot;undersea radar&quot; and the editors at Popular Electronics (I think) raked the show over the coals for even mentioning such an &quot;impossible&quot; thing.
We now have ground-penetrating radar and lawsuits over the US Navy's acquisition of undersea radar equipment <A href='http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Baskir/05/BASKIR.Gould2.cnt1.pdf' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a> (fairly large PDF).
Maybe the &quot;sea Hunt&quot; writers weren't doing the &quot;impossible&quot; after all...

John
 
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BrendanP

Senior Member
&quot;....Detecting a heartbeat at any distance is almost impossible, the medical profession
would pay billions to get their hands on such a device, not to mention tha armed forces etc....&quot;.

A bold statement and demonstrably untrue. Have a look.

http://www.geovox.com/

 
 
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Dippy

Moderator
I just KNEW someone would spend hours Goggling to find something to prove something 'untrue'.

But, if you look at both sensors they rely on the target being in contact with the transducer e.g. sitting in the car or, as in the above link, &quot;...which couples to any surface or object with which the body is in contact&quot;.

So, it sort of depends on your definition of &quot;remote&quot; dunnit. And &quot;..demonstrably untrue&quot; - well jury's still out.

I haven't got the time to Google.
 
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demonicpicaxeguy

Senior Member
there are microphones sensitive enough to do somthing like you want but it'll only pick up things like foot prints and anything hitting the ground
they cost around $2500 they are a pain to interface to ,and are very very delicate however it'll allow you to pick up a somone walking up to 50m away

we use them at work for pinpointing small leaks between two point up to and over 100m apart on castiron water mains
 
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Michael 2727

Senior Member
By the way what is the &quot;going rate&quot; on a single corrections officer or portal security guard ?
Then there's that fancy computer and software as well.
Guess Christmas is out of the question <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
 
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BrendanP

Senior Member
Not hours, about 20 seconds literaly. I think I googled &quot;heart beat sensor militairy&quot;.

But as Michael hints at out what they claim and how it performs in the field are two different things.

&#160;

Edited by - BrendanP on 23/07/2007 09:44:49
 
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inglewoodpete

Senior Member
Just had a thought. We could resurrect that 'Nesbit' thread....

(I'm assuming that a rabbit's heartbeat could be sensed at a distance too!)
 
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demonicpicaxeguy

Senior Member
the sensors we use at work will pick him up easily.
but you'll need three of them to get an exact x Y loction

Edited by - demonicpicaxeguy on 23/07/2007 10:15:52
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
**************
WOW...
Really exist... but too militarized yet.
Micro-celerometers...??? sound like starwars weapon...

Ok... I must wait some years to grab one of those... I think.

:eek:(
 
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Dippy

Moderator
Durng a moment of boredom some time ago, I did notice that microwave doppler sensors could detect heart beat. You could see it on a 'scope. But the range was tiny.

That method may be possible (or not) but that would require a helluva lot of processing. I'm not suggesting people try it though.
 
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Ray Fitzsimon

New Member
This is not really relevant to the topic, but may be of some interest... Ive heard of mines being fitted with sensor that can detect the breathing of an approaching scuba diver. The mine then self destructs before the diver can disarm it.
 
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Bob Elton

New Member
&quot;Self-Destructs before the diver can disarm it.&quot;.. handy!
Does that mean that if you send an Ipod in a plastic bag with a recording of heavy breathing you could clear a minefield.
 
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toxicmouse

Senior Member
i didnt think anybody actually read the articles in the sunday sport.

but seriously, i have come accross sensors that are used to pick up footsteps at up to 50m, i doubt they could do much for heartbeats though. the filtering would be tricky.
 
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Michael 2727

Senior Member
Dippy, there is a range of PIR detectors, Dual Element, they are usually marketed as Pet Detectors. These detectors use a standard PIR section plus a low power Microwave section, both have to detect a moving object before the sensor activates the output relay.
The units are setup to allow, Rover, Kitty or Nesbit to pass without setting off the alarm.
I don't see the medical profession adopting this technique any time soon e.g. &quot;Stand over there while we microwave you for 60 seconds&quot; to see if you are still alive.
I know the output of these devices is very low and a Mobile/Cell phone call probably fries 10 times as many brain cells as standing in front of one of these units for the same amount of time, but I don't think a device would gain popularity.

You can detect [almost] anything under the right conditions and with enough money/technology, but a &quot;point and shoot, remote heartbeat detector&quot; is still a long way off. Although I do have a point and shoot heartbeat eliminator, watchit Nesbit!

They can make Ball Lightning, Quarks and (Claim to have made) Cold Fusion under the right conditions, but any practicle, portable devices under a Million bucks or so are scarce. Maybe one day !

I wanted a pet Quark but they don't live long in captivity and on their own.
I'll stick with my Chooks and Beardies for now.
 
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Dippy

Moderator
Thanks Michael. I've got one at home. They're usually known as &quot;Dual Technology&quot; rather than &quot;Dual Element&quot; which usually applies to the actual sensor.Typo?

Go on, a bit of 10.5Gig microwave will put hairs on your chest (joking!!).

Cold fusion; I remember that. That's gone a bit quiet.

Edited by - dippy on 23/07/2007 15:31:23
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
**********
Amazing videos here
<External Web Link>
<External Web Link>
but isn't cheap enough as volvo's detector.
Anyway, USA, UK, France and others gov's already have those detectors. But still're too expensive to me... he he he.

Well, I keep seeing about any "vital sign detector" from NASA or UTN (Also talk with Xenetian's too he he he) if some one want share some useful info...

:eek:)
 
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