DIPTRACE PCB CAD for PICAXErs

[Mycroft2152]

DIPTRACE is an easy to learn schematic and pcb layout program. Thre free version allows 250 pins and 2 layer pcbs to be created.

I'm an ex EAGLE user who completely moved over to DIPTRACE after tryng it out for less than a week. I've been using DIPTRACE for four years now and reccommend it highly.

I'll be posting some PICAXE designs, libraries and VSM here.

Post any questions here, and I'll try to answer them

Myc

 

[moxhamj]

As per previous thread "Mycroft, as an Eagle expert can you please help with a problem replicated on three computers by two different people - the smd-ipc.lbr library does not appear to be available to select components from. Have tried updating the library files etc. This library is a default one including with the program download."

The program is Eagle 4.16r2.

But it could well be that diptrace is easier than trying to debug Eagle. Maybe I might make the move too... I'll check out diptrace.

 

[Mycroft2152]

Hi Doc,

I revved up by rusty copy of EAGLE 4.16r2 and had the same problem. Very strange. I could open the library to view it, but could not select a part from it. I am using Windows XP SP2. the smp-ipc.lib has a creation date of 12/13/06

It is interesting to note that the smd-ipc.lib is not listed on their website as part of the library downloads. (?)

I have 2 suggestions, 1. Post a message to their technical website , or 2. download and earlier version of EAGLE and see if there is a problem.

It is also interesting that there are no mentions of this problem when doing a google search.

DIPTRACE has a function to import EAGLE files and libraries, I'll give that a try.

Myc

 

[moxhamj]

Many thanks - at least I know I am not going crazy. Interesting diptrace can import eagle files...

 

[ciseco]

This is what I got from thier tech support (see below)

I am trying "target 3001" at the moment, on the free version you can do any size board upto 250 Pins/Pads, 2 copper layers, 1.2m x 1.2m, 30 signals simulatable all functions active, ?40 buys the entry level at 400 pads/pins so similar in price to eagle. Has a lovely 3D view.

http://www.ibfriedrich.com/

Diptrace looks very good too (just downloaded it), love the way it does lines in schematics, but the first pcb I tried to generate grumbled about not having the outlines for what I'd placed on the schematic (7 seg LED), ever the way feels a little lightweight somehow, I'm probably doing it a serious misjustice having only given it 20mins as opposed to the 3-4 hours on target.

who knows whats best, I certainly dont, all I know is I found eagle confusing and it didnt suit me and the other two look easier to use

Miles


--------------------------------------------------
The library called SMD-IPC.LBR only contains packages that show up in the board editor. If you look at the library carefully you will notice there is no Schematic Symbols in it. The SMD-ipc.lbr and ref-pac.lbr only contain Packages.

Regards,
Ed
________
launch box

 

[Mycroft2152]

This is what I got from thier tech support (see below)

I am trying "target 3001" at the moment, on the free version you can do any size board upto 250 Pins/Pads, 2 copper layers, 1.2m x 1.2m, 30 signals simulatable all functions active, £40 buys the entry level at 400 pads/pins so similar in price to eagle. Has a lovely 3D view.

http://www.ibfriedrich.com/

Diptrace looks very good too (just downloaded it), love the way it does lines in schematics, but the first pcb I tried to generate grumbled about not having the outlines for what I'd placed on the schematic (7 seg LED), ever the way feels a little lightweight somehow, I'm probably doing it a serious misjustice having only given it 20mins as opposed to the 3-4 hours on target.

who knows whats best, I certainly dont, all I know is I found eagle confusing and it didnt suit me and the other two look easier to use

Miles


--------------------------------------------------
The library called SMD-IPC.LBR only contains packages that show up in the board editor. If you look at the library carefully you will notice there is no Schematic Symbols in it. The SMD-ipc.lbr and ref-pac.lbr only contain Packages.

Regards,
Ed

Ciesco,

I'm curious, post your DIPTRACE Schematic problem. You'll have to change the name From Schematic.dch to Schematic_dhc.txt to post it on the forum.
There are some generic components in the DIPTRACE library that are schematic only do not have an attached pcb pattern.

I misssed the footprints only part of the smd-ipc.lib, but it makes sense. It was 1:00 AM when I looked at it.

Dr. A, you will need the change and link the footprints for any EAGLE schematic component to one in the smc-ipc.lib.

Myc

 

[Mycroft2152]

I feel you will be hard pressed to find a better program than Eagle for serious PCB work especially when you learn how to use the setup files for the board rules and design.

QUOTE]

Shack,

There is a large number of pcb cad programs on the market. Each one has its benefits and disadvantages. Cost, capabilities, ease of use and learning curve are only a few.

Each user will have their favorite pcb cad prgram, depending on thier requirements, level of expertise and budget.

Rather than start a flame war here, "my pcb cad is better than your pcb cad", I am only describing my experience in 20 years of trying different pcb cad programs.

I was a very dedicated EAGLE user for a number of years, having created many circuits, components and libraries. I took me about three years to reach the point in the learning curve to make EAGLE jump though the hoops.

As a hobbyist, I was a bit frustrated with the difficult learning curve and the 2" x 3" board size limits of the free version and the 4" x 6" limits on the beginners paid version. So I kept looking at other pcb cad programs.

I came across DIPTRACE and tried it out. In less than a week I was able to do 90% of what it took me 3 years to learn to do in EAGLE. The librarry and component creation was so simple, that those functions alone sold me on DIPTRACE. At that point, I stopped using EAGLE and started using DIPTRACE.

One of the other benefits to DIPTRACE was that there was no board size limits, if I wanted to make a 1" x 12" board, it was possible even with the free version.

DIPTRACE has evolved over the years, adding EAGLE file import capability, as well as many other neat functions. There is a support forum on Yahoo groups and questions posted there usually get answered within 24 hours.

So with this thread, I am sharing my experiences with DIPTRACE, PICAXE and VSM. as well as offering help on using DIPTRACE on PICAXE projects.

Myc

 

[Shack]

Mycroft2152 that wasn't my intent at all and I'm sorry you took it that way. I was actually trying to be helpful for Dr_Acula since it "appeard" to me he was interested in Eagle and having some difficulty.

I will delete my thread and avoid commenting in the future.

 

[Tom2000]

Myc,

I've downloaded the Diptrace free version, and am working through the schematic capture section of the Diptrace Tutorial.

On page 14 of the tutorial, they discuss moving and orienting component labels. They state that you can select labels by pressing F10 (which works OK for me) and that you can rotate labels by pressing the space bar or the R key while that label is selected.

I'm trying to re-orient the labels for the 2N4401 transistor.

Using F10, I can move the labels around OK, but I can't rotate them from vertical to horizontal orientation using either the space bar or by hitting the R key while I have the label selected.

Is that broken on your copy, too, or is there some super double secret technique required to properly orient labels?

(Looking ahead in the tutorial, I just noticed that they show all their labels in the vertical orientation throughout the entire section. I'm now thinking that label rotation is broken on their copy, too.)

Tom

 

[MartinM57]

Ha! I had a go at that tutorial last night as well!

I had the same problem too...

I found DipTrace pretty good (I hate Eagle....well let's say I can't seem to do the simplest things with Eagle 'cos the UI is so weird...) but still found myself having to press the Esc key a lot to get me out of/into certain modes.

Also, the Transistor library wasn't available the first time I ran it, which caused much confusion. So I shut it down and re-started it and there it was...

Three problems I'd be grateful for views on:
- when I tried to put a graphic (in the Silk) on top of a Copper Pour , it always disappeared under the copper Text seems OK....
- Is there a specific .eli file for PICAXEs?
- I was disappointed there was no Kingbright .eli - especially for 7-segment displays. Any idea if there is one anywhere (I Googled, but failed)

 

[Mycroft2152]

Hi Tom,

To change the position of the label:

Right click on the component to select it
Select Properties
Select the "Marking " Tab
Then click on the down arrow on the Justify menu
That will give you 8 choices for positioning the label
Left and Right will be vertical
Top and Bottom will be horizontal
then you can use the F10 to tweak the position

It counds more coplicated than it is.

Note the "SHOW" menu will give options for what is displayed

Myc

 

[Tom2000]

Myc,

I also emailed my question to Diptrace.

Alex Mihailenko, from Diptrace support, was kind enough to reply promptly (and correctly! -- something you don't often see from tech support folks these days!) that you must hit spacebar or the R key while you still have the left mouse button held down in order to rotate a label.

That wasn't clear in the tutorial, and not an obvious method. (At least it's not to me...)

I just tried it, and it works.

Sweetness and light!

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Mycroft2152]

Myc,

I also emailed my question to Diptrace.

Alex Mihailenko, from Diptrace support, was kind enough to reply promptly (and correctly! -- something you don't often see from tech support folks these days!) that you must hit spacebar or the R key while you still have the left mouse button held down in order to rotate a label.

That wasn't clear in the tutorial, and not an obvious method. (At least it's not to me...)

I just tried it, and it works.

Sweetness and light!

Thanks,

Tom

Thats a new one on me, too! I'm not surprised though, I keep finding new tricks and techniques as I use DIPTRACE.

Alex and Stas (the developer of DIPTRACE) are very supportive and responsive. Both also monitor the DIPTRACE user group on Yahoo.

Myc

 

[Mycroft2152]

Three problems I'd be grateful for views on:
- when I tried to put a graphic (in the Silk) on top of a Copper Pour , it always disappeared under the copper Text seems OK....
- Is there a specific .eli file for PICAXEs?
- I was disappointed there was no Kingbright .eli - especially for 7-segment displays. Any idea if there is one anywhere (I Googled, but failed)

Hi Martin,

Send me the file and I'll take a look at it, or you can send it to support@diptrace.com

Diptrace has over 50.000 components in its librairies, unfortutantely there are many more in the real world You may check the LED data sheet and see if there is something similar. One of the nice things about DIPTRACe is how easy it is to create a component / pattern. Check the tutorial for instructions. Post a link to the LED display and I'll walk you through it.

I have a library that includes PICAXE components and I'll be glad to post it. It is something that I originally created for my own use with BEAM robots and added PICAXE componets to it...

There a few "tweaks" that I made for my convenience, that you should be aware of:

1. the component symbols are IC shaped, rather thn just square boxes.

2. the transistors are US type 2Nxxxx with a different pattern (footprint)

3. The patterns (footprints) are adjusted for making pcbs at home using with either the Toner Transfer or Photo method.

4. If you are having a commercial pcb made, the you will need to "attach" the smaller commercial patterns.

Myc

 

[MartinM57]

Myc

Graphic problem - easy to show...

Put a single component on a new schematic
Ctrl-B to go to PCB layout
Specify a board outline
Do a Copper Pour around the component
Try to put text on the Silk that should be above the Pour - works OK
Try to put a .jpg picture on the Silk that should be above the Pour - doesn't work - goes under the Pour

LED component is...
http://www.kingbrightusa.com/images/catalog/SPEC/PSA23-11SRWA.pdf
...EDIT: note the two rows of pins aren't an integer number of tenths of inch apart. Grrr!

I don't need the PICAXE library at the moment (I'm an AVR-man at heart) - I just thought that with all this focus on DipTrace here that it was easy to come by...

 

[ciseco]

mmmmm

back to eagle, target had some really nice features but had such a short range of componants I was forver building them (and thier was is slow), now I've got the grasp of cut and paste in eagle (what a chore to figure that out) I can now get on with things

Miles
________
marijuana card

 

[tmack]

Thanks

MyCroft, Thanks for this post. I have been looking into getting some software to do this. Best thing is that its FREE! Ill be playing around with this now.

 

[Mycroft2152]

Martin,

On the text and copper fill.
Right click on the text to bring up the properties box.
Select Properties
Change TYPE to TOP SILK. Note the color change
That should do it.
You can confirm the results usong the print preview and displaying only the SILK.

On the LED PATTERN, one way to do it is:

First select the units of measure:

View> Grid> Units

Then hange the grid size in the Pattern Editor

View>Grid Size>Custom

and create your part.

Another way is to right click on the pad and type in the x/y coordinates.

A simpler way in the Pattern Editor is to select the row of pads from the Menu bar ( it looks like a set of diagonal circles). Then fill in the Number of pads and Spacing.

Myc

 

[MartinM57]

It's pictures I'm having the trouble with - text is fine...
...but although the picture is below the Copper Pour in the board editor, it seems to be OK on the Print Preview, so I'm half-convinced it will be OK if I sent it off to a board house. Suppose I need to do the whole Gerber-thing and look at it in GC-Prevue...

Will follow the tips for the LED display...the other alternative is to find an Eagle library for it and import it into DipTrace (I did that with another Kingbright LED and it worked fine)...but I can't find an Eagle library for it either

 

[MartinM57]

OK - I've played some more...got the hang of Copper Pours connecting to nets with thermal connections for pads etc. Nice

One thing is really bugging me - I've got a net, say "Vcc", that connects (without wires) to all the IC Vcc pins, plus a 7805 output.

I want to put a pair of decoupling caps onto the 7805 output but connect them to it with wires, like any sensible schematic. But as the 7805 output is to a named-and-wireless net, I can't work out how to do it. I just end up with two isolated caps with ->> connections at each end, to the Vcc and GND net, which is electrically fine I suppose, but visually not what I want

Any ideas DipTracer's?

 

[Mycroft2152]

Hi Martin,

I saw your post and tried a few things, no luck. There is a way to create exclusion zones, but I'm not sure that if it will work, but could be a real PITA to do for the traces.

Usually, the copper pour is used for the ground plane /connections.

This would be a question for the Diptrace forum on Yahoo or an emial to support@diptracee.com

Myc

I'm impressed with how far you have rpgressed with DT in such a short time.