Christmas time , oscillioscopes and wine

Dippy

Moderator
Well, it's almost a song!
And talking of going for a song...

I often wonder how people do their projects without a scope .... other than blowing kisses to other Forum members to use theirs :)

I received a flyer today from CPC, so this really probably only applies to UK users.
For your information, CPC is a longstanding company who were taken over by Farnell a few years ago.

The warranty, support and refund policy of CPC and Farnell are bulletproof and quick.
I've had years of dealings and spent £10s of K with both. They are excellent. And they will still be here next decade.
They will never be the cheapest.
But, NOW and THEN they have some good offers.

http://cpc.farnell.com/owon/pds5022s/oscilloscope-dso-25mhz/dp/IN0566320?Ntt=in0566320

- No , it's not Tektronix
- No , I have never used one
- Yes, we know where it's made
- USB and FFT
- Yes, it can take a battery (albeit pricey).
- 100 Ms/S
But CPC warranty is so good that if it's dicky then chuck it back and you'll get a refund (probably carriage free) as long as you don't take the pi$$.
CPC are not Ebay.

I don't want to open the whole Separate Scope versus USB box device debate.
Each have advantages... yawn.
I prefer the separate box.

Happy Christmas and apologies to all parents if their little jamsters are now pestering them for a 'scope :)
 

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
I often wonder how people do their projects without a scope .... other than blowing kisses to other Forum members to use theirs :)
First it depends if a scope is needed ! Most projects I've done don't need a scope at all but there are some which do. If you steer clear of those; no problem :)

For analogue circuits it's more necessary and I'd also say it was more necessary to have a capable scope. So in that respect I would agree that it's far less practical to do analogue work without a scope.
 

Dippy

Moderator
"First it depends if a scope is needed ! Most projects I've done don't need a scope at all but there are some which do. If you steer clear of those; no problem :)"
- Err, well, er , cough,cough, yes, obviously I wasn't referring to projects that didn't need a scope. :rolleyes: :)


For much analogue and a lot of digital work you need a scope.
Frequencies, amplitudes, timing, response... and even just to prove something is coming out of a hole!
Or , perish the thought, to find out where noise is coming into your circuit and where filtering/decoupling can be placed...

I realise that some can come to the Forum and get a cut'n'paste answer for some things - but I'm talking to those who would like to create art as opposed to Painting by Numbers.

And if you can afford a Tektronix (or big boy make) then get one.
I'm merely pointing people to just look at what is available fairly economically from a RELIABLE supplier :)
A bit like My First Pony.


Pete: Sadly, even the low end Tektronix are made there too.
 

Janne

Senior Member
That scope seems to be nicely priced, and knowing the warranty policy of Farnell I'd assume it would be quite a safe buy.

A bummer is that it's not available from Farnell Finland :/
 

Andrew Cowan

Senior Member
Nice find, Dippy - I think that I might have to get one of these for Christmas. I'm still deliberating between a DSO and a logic analyzer (probably the Saleae one).

I've currently got:
- A 60MHz Tek scope (Martin's old one) - it's a decent scope, but I keep it under my workbench, and it is a hassel getting it out for quick readings.
- A couple of various USB scopes - good for quick readings, but not suitable for anything over 1MHz or so.

I've been thinking about getting a digital storage scope - I agree with Dippy that I prefer using a seperate box to a USB scope.

The most popular budget digital scope seems to be Rigol DS1052. This is a 50MHz scope, although using old firmware versions you can (apparently) upgrade it to the DS1102 - the 100MHz version. So, a comparison:

Screen:
Owon: 7.8" LCD, 640x480 resolution, 256 colours
Rigoll: 5.6" TFT, 320x234 resolution, 64k colours

Samples (one channel):
Owon: 250Ms/S (100Ms/S for two channel)
Rigol: 1Gs/S (500Ms/S for two channels)

Bandwidth (one channel):
Owon: 25MHz
Rigol: 50MHz (100MHz with hack?)

Price and supplier:
Owon: £204, (CPC with warrenty etc)
Rigol: ~£250, China

Features common to both scopes:
- Vertical Resolution: 8 bits
- FFT
- Save to USB or control via PC
- Trigger on edge/video (and Pulse Width, Slope, Alternate for the Rigol)
- Two Channels and external trigger
- Automatic cursors
- Waveform maths: + and - (and x on the Rigol)

The larger and higher definition screeen of the Owon (and lower price) make it seem more attractive to me - I've only once used more than 15MHz (the limit of my signal generator) with my current 60MHz scope. One of my friends recently bought the Owon scope - I'll get in contact with him, and let you all know what his experiences have been with it.

Any thoughts/comments?

Andrew

The manual for the Owon
 
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Dippy

Moderator
That's a helpful comparison Andrew, thanks.


My only worry when buying anything is 'what happens if it conks?'

I am not sending a great heavy box to China or anywhere abroad.
I want to speak to someone in English.
If it's a swapout fault I want a new one within 2 working days.
If it's a query I want to be able to get an answer quickly in English.
I want to be able to phone-the-mugger-up option at a reasonable cost.
I want to be protected by good consumer Laws.

If it ends in a dispute then I want to go to a business premises and shove it..


Try that when you live here and buy from Beijing.... ;)

Those 'benefits' have some value, so I'm prepared to pay the extra quid.

Oh, the Masters tennis is on TV. Bye bye.
 

Andrew Cowan

Senior Member
I've got a 1MHz USB scope. It is much better than no scope (ie a multimeter) - it is useful for checking PWM pulses, basic data flows etc. A faster scope means you can check more information and for more problems.

I'm not a fan of the DSO nano - I haven't used one, but it looks to be more of a toy than a proper scope - it looks much harder and more fiddly to use than a USB scope.

Although it's much better than nothing...

A
 

John West

Senior Member
Some cute scopes there. I sure wish I needed another one. But that would be "Coals to Newcastle," as they say. :)
 

Andrew Cowan

Senior Member
I've owned one for four years.
It's still working, but I'm not
expert enough to give it a full review.
...snip
Most of the reviews I have read say that it is a good scope, although the screen's viewing angle is very low. None of the reviews have mentioned the build quality - how is it?

The Rigol scope is known for having full decent shielding, and top quality brand name components. I'd hope that Farnell stocking it would mean the Owon has the same sort of quality. (Ec - don't go taking your apart on my behalf!)

I think I'll buy myself one - it looks like a nice piece of kit.

Andrew
 

eclectic

Moderator
Most of the reviews I have read say that it is a good scope, although the screen's viewing angle is very low. None of the reviews have mentioned the build quality - how is it?

The Rigol scope is known for having full decent shielding, and top quality brand name components. I'd hope that Farnell stocking it would mean the Owon has the same sort of quality. (Ec - don't go taking your apart on my behalf!)

I think I'll buy myself one - it looks like a nice piece of kit.

Andrew
I haven't enough experience to judge competently,
but it "feels" OK and nothing has broken off.
(The build quality of my Fluke "feels" excellent,
but so it should at the price. :) )

It's true about the restricted angle / contrast
but mine's now on a shelf at eye height.

And no, even I'm not mad enough
to take it apart. :))

e

ps Rapid have continued to stock it for several months
which I assume is a good sign.
 
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Dippy

Moderator
Give it a review Andrew. And a Value rating based on cost.

I normally find products from Farnell good.
They're not stupid, they don't want the expense/hassle of having to replace/refund duff products.
As far as quality goes I know nothing about this product.
Maybe the CPC buyer was drunk and the Owon sales rep was good?
Who knows? It was something to consider from a reputable supplier that's all.

Then again, I've never heard of Rigol except on hobby sites.
And I certainly wouldn't do a personal import on an unknown (to me ) quantity.

I thought Rigol was a planet that Captain Kirk once visited?:confused:
 

Andrew Cowan

Senior Member
I think that the fact that both Rapid and CPC stock it is a good sign. Similarly, the fact that eclectic is still alive and using it after four years is another good sign.

I think I'll go for it. I'll also make a battery pack for it - the £65 one is a 7.4v, 8000mah pack, which will power the scope for four hours.

I've got a set of 4500mah NiMh cells - six of them should power it four a couple of hours. I'll mill a holder for them out of plastic/wood, and add some sprung contacts. This guy's made his own battery pack, although soldering it in seems a bad idea (warranty wise).

I'll keep you updated!
 
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Minifig666

Senior Member
Happy Christmas and apologies to all parents if their little jamsters are now pestering them for a 'scope :)
Are you poking fun at younger members? I was going to ask for a 'scope for Christmas actually. It would be useful for my upcoming TTL computer but a PICAXE based serial logic analyser will have to do for now! (unless anyone fancies donating one to the minifig trust! :p)
On the same front I've been looking into getting one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tektronix-475-200MHz-dual-beam-scope-/230556612848?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item35ae3eb8f0#ht_3129wt_1139
We have them at school and they seem very well built, and have a good frequency limit as well. Does anyone have any reasons not to go with this?
 

premelec

Senior Member
I've used a Tek 465 for many years - very good machine - I'd give you a Tek 545 I have if you could pick it up [it's got two handles and I can't pick it up - only draws about 300 watts but there's a certain beauty to all those glowing vacuum tubes]. Keep watching and you'll find a cheap scope somewhere!
 

cdngunner

Senior Member
The last scope I bought looked like this and doesn't do any of they fancy stuff like the one pictured in the link from the original post. I have to read the manual again and figure out where the wire attach.



Lat scope I looked at was $27 000.00 cdn, a bit too pricey for me.
 

premelec

Senior Member
This item is useful when your oscilloscope is located near the rocket which is about to take off :)
 

Minifig666

Senior Member
Wow, does the 465 actually has real vacuum tubes in it? (Besides the CRT) I've always wanted something with a vacuum tube, just to see it glow! The only disadvantage is the warm up time, how quickly does it 'warm up' (I mean turn on)? The 545 looks a bit big for my desk and the shipping would be horrendous. I presume the two handles are for two people to grab it, or a crane prehaps?
@cdngunner CAN27,000! (£17,000) That is a LOT of money for a few curvy pieces of glass! Telescopes the same price can see miles further!
 

eclectic

Moderator
snipped
@cdngunner CAN27,000! (£17,000) That is a LOT of money for a few curvy pieces of glass! Telescopes the same price can see miles further!
Yes but very high prices
make very rich people
feel miles better!

See/hear last line of
"The Producers".

e
 

cdngunner

Senior Member
@cdngunner CAN27,000! (£17,000) That is a LOT of money for a few curvy pieces of glass! Telescopes the same price can see miles further!

Hehehehe that would be an expensive RIFLE scope.....

The last SILLY-scope I looked at was $27000, I think it was the swiss army knife of silly-scopes. Besides a beer opener, I believe an operator came with it.....:D
 

eclectic

Moderator
Hehehehe that would be an expensive RIFLE scope.....

The last SILLY-scope I looked at was $27000, I think it was the swiss army knife of silly-scopes. Besides a beer opener, I believe an operator came with it.....:D
Telescope?
Rifle-scope?
Oscilloscope?

Post #19 seems to need an

Ambiguityscope.

e
 

Minifig666

Senior Member
Why for post 19? Maybe for 22. I would love a retroscope if it could bring things from the past.
Maybe a bankscope or a safescope. Or for people who keep losing their code, a codescope. :D
 

premelec

Senior Member
Minif.... the Tek 465 vintage 1973 has only the CRT vacuum device... the Tek 545 has a pile of vacuum glass thingys... I've had almost no trouble with the 465 for 35 years [no, I don't leave it turned on] - as a used scope I've seen them as low as $50us - so that could be a good starter for you.
 

papaof2

Senior Member
I'd give you a Tek 545 I have if you could pick it up [it's got two handles and I can't pick it up - only draws about 300 watts but there's a certain beauty to all those glowing vacuum tubes].
If he comes by my place, he can have a matched pair - assuming he's still able to lift things after picking up your 545 ;-)

John
 

Minifig666

Senior Member
Aww, I was hoping the 465 had tubes but oh well. Being highly recommended I'll go with the 465. Thanks for the offerings of 545s but I'll have to pass, I don't like flying! I'll have to wait after Christmas and see what I can find. I might try and get one with the digital readout thingy on top!
 

slimplynth

Senior Member
...

Then again, I've never heard of Rigol except on hobby sites.
And I certainly wouldn't do a personal import on an unknown (to me ) quantity.

I thought Rigol was a planet that Captain Kirk once visited?:confused:
May have been Rigel? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigel_in_fiction

The aliens from the Simpsons live there too, thought it sounded familiar - also featured in Star Trek.

Anyway, fingers crossed for the 2010 Innovation's Award at work.. 600 quid top prize and I can feel the money burning a hole in my shell suit pants to buy the scope in your first post - Though it's not in bag yet so I best write another letter to Santa to be on the safe side.
 
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cdngunner

Senior Member
Hmmm? Perhaps.

However, referring to your post #19, a

retrospectoscope?

e
hmmmmm seemed to be stuck on post 19 eh!

I do remmember mentioning a SILLY-SCOPE in post 24

or an O-SILLY-SCOPE

or an Oscilloscope

or an I'm-just-being-silly-scope

I hope this answers your quest from post 25 and 28.

;):D

For further clarification please contact me at cdngunner@IDGAF.com
 
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