Choosing a Fluke multimeter

[Andrew Cowan]

Sorry for the off-topic question (hey, it's all electronics!).

My position:
I currently own a high end (compared to your average £5 multimeter) model - a WG020. This multimeter does everything I want it to, and I am happy with it.

I feel that at some point in my electronics career, I will need to buy a much better, more reliable model - ie a Fluke. As most of the models have a lifetime warranty, I feel that now would not be a bad time to make the investment - the earlier I get it, the more use I will have from it.

As this is a high cost, I hope for this multimeter to last me a very long time. I therefore want to get a model that will do everything I want it to, so this rules out Flukes most basic models. On the other hand, I don't want to pay too much - at this stage, over £250 is too much for a multimeter. I don't need any datalogging functions.

Looking for the highest spec'ed Flukes meter in my price range, I have found that the Fluke 179 looks like an excellent meter.

I have found this meter for £189 - which is a great price, but only available for a limited time.

So, the questions:
- Which Fluke meter would you recommend for under £250?
- Is this something that is worth buying as a student, and using throughout my life, or should I wait and continue using my cheap meter?
- Do you have any experience with the Fluke 179?

Thanks for any thoughts or comments,

Andrew

 

[MartinM57]

I plan to go to Southampton to study Electronic Engineering

Excellent choice - as I'm an Alumni of Southampton University BSc Electronic Engineering (some time ago though )

Is this something that is worth buying as a student, and using throughout my life, or should I wait and continue using my cheap meter?

If you've got £180 burning a hole in your pocket then go for it...or eBay item 330438581418. Electronic engineering rarely goes above 30v (although I remember doing some electrical engineering stuff with heavy duty motor sets) so the high end isn't going to be that useful to you. Your Maplin one looks good enough to me.

 

[KTarke]

I am not going to give a answer to Your question, but some things to think about...

In electronics laboratory, one needs high accuracy, but in what projects? What are You going to do?

You are in the Picaxe forum, so I think that You are interested in LOGIC chips...

And there, You need a AVERAGE multimeter , and a logic probe.
When needing "better data" ,You need a oscilloscope!

I have been "straightened" here many times, for using a DVM ! It does not tell anything about signal waveforms ,and DVM's has some sort of signal conditioning ,too. (does not tell the truth about peak-to-peak values)

I admit, that I do not understand much of designing electronic circuits (more of using them....) ,but I have found out, that DVM tells quite little about the whole thing, when question is about microprocessors.

In my humble opinion, do not put a lot of money to dvm (if working with uP's). Invest rather in some kind of a oscilloscope.

PS. I have a very old Fluke, that cost a lot when new. Also have a few other, cheaper, dvm's. And working with uP's ,I can see no difference between them!

Of course ,Your choice, but the choice depends on Your needs!
At logic side, one does not benefit of a expensive multimeter.

PS2. I was lazy, and did not look, what were those Fluke types. just assumed, that You were talking about multimeters...

 

[Andrew Cowan]

Thanks for the replies.

The reasons I am looking at getting a fluke rather than continuing with my current meter until it breaks are:
- Fluke's meters feel very well made
- Backlight
- True RMS
- Min/Max/Average/TouchHold
- Bargraph on display
- Auto-ranging (Easy to use)

Note that 0.09% accuracy is not on the list - in terms of accuracy, my current multimeter is fine. However;

PS. I have a very old Fluke, that cost a lot when new.

Most of the electronic engineers I have spoken to seem to have a Fluke meter - usually an old one that they have owned for most of their career. This is what I am thinking about buying - I foresee that at sometime in my life I will buy myself a Fluke for the easy of use and nice features. If I will buy one eventually, why not buy one now and make the use of it from an early point in time?

Regarding a second hand meter, it is true that good bargains come up from time to time. However, the advantage of a new meter is the lifetime warranty, and the fact that I will know it hasn't been treated roughly and is still well calibrated etc. As a 'tool for life', I think that only an amazing bargain would tempt me. What are your thoughts on second hand meters? I'm thinking more favourably towards them...

I'll also add that my current meter is poor for reading very low currents. While I have a nice 60MHz scope (thanks Martin!), I find myself using my multimeter for almost every task I do, so having an easy to use multimeter to work with is important to me. Thanks for any more comments.

Andrew

 

[Rickharris]

There was a discussion about test gear some time back and I think the general conclusion was that a decent scope would do far more for you than most other instruments.

I have a mid range DVM and have used it for quite a lot of years with no issues or real wish for something better. I also use Fluke instruments in my professional capacity - they are very good - no doubt.

But like my £20 watch from M&S vs my £130 Seiko they both tell the same time to some degree of accuracy.

good luck with the course the country needs engineers.

 

[Andrew Cowan]

There was a discussion about test gear some time back and I think the general conclusion was that a decent scope would do far more for you than most other instruments.

Although I use my scope to solve problems my multimeter couldn't, I use my multimeter very regulary, and my scope rarely. I'd rather have a top-end multimeter than a top end digital scope.

But like my £20 watch from M&S vs my £130 Seiko they both tell the same time to some degree of accuracy.

Which do you prefer wearing ? Don't worry about answering that part if the answer is the £20 one.

Thanks

Andrew

 

[Andrew Cowan]

Latest - I've discovered the Fluke 87 model, which seems slightly better than the Fluke 179 - it is certainly has much more resolution for current (0.01uA instead of 0.01mA) and voltage (10uV instead of 0.1mV). While I don't need that accuracy, I think it shows it is a more capable meter. Plus it has more buttons = more functions. Any thoughts on the Fluke 87?

Andrew

 

[chigley]

Maybe get in touch with the university and ask them? They may have specific requirements of what you need to do the course.

Just an idea...

 

[Andrew Cowan]

The university doesn't require you to have a multimeter for the course, as the university's labs have equipment in (although not with Flukes). For general project work, I'd imagine any multimeter would do.

Andrew

 

[Jaguarjoe]

I've had a Fluke 85 (step brother to the 87) for about 15 years. It has never failed me. I used to use it for all of my electrical work- inside/outside of the house or on the car. Lately, I discovered $2.99 Harbor Freight Tools DVM's. No match to the Fluke but for 95% of what I do they work fine.

In my 36 years of employment I was never required to furnish my own tools. Any outfit that produces precision equipment would not trust the accuracy of your own personal property. All of the test gear in a good company gets recalibrated once a year or so. They prefer to do their own rather than yours.

 

[LizzieB]

I grew up with Avo's but fell in love with Fluke DVM's when they introduced the 8000A. I have an original Fluke Model 75 bought new when they were introduced in the early 80's, it's had a lot of use (and a few blown fuses) and still looks and works great, and a Model 75 III that I bought used from a pawn shop in Texas.

 

[Haku]

If you asked this a couple of weeks ago I'd have suggested taking a look at the Metrix MTX328x units on eBay, I got a MTX3283 with bluetooth for £65 (normally £500+), goes nicely with my MTX3282 just need some more test leads and will probably have to stump up just as much for the current software as I'm having trouble getting the old software to work with bluetooth.

The graphing and recording capability of the units is very nice, I've yet to really use them to their max though.

 

[RobertN]

A couple Multimeter functions you may want to consider.

Display counts - voltage range that can handle least 0 to 5 volts without range changing, and maintaining the same resolution from 0 to 5V. A display that has 2000 or 4000 counts can be maddening when it changes ranges when working with a 5 volt circuit. Locking it on the 20 or 40 volt range reduces the resolution, which may or may not be OK.

Frequency and duty cycle functions can be handy for many types of digital circuits.

True RMS. We used a good Fluke meter with True RMS as a standard for current measurements of PWM circuits in the lab. It may not have been super accurate but it was repeatable and believable for what we were doing.

 

[Dippy]

I did Applied Physics at Soton.

I'm quite a fan of FLuke amongst others.

The things that appeal to me include quality and speed.

For a fee (from a proper supplier e.g. Farnell) you can have it calibrated.
To justify a calibration you need a sound basis e.g. a Fluke.
Trying to calibrate your 50p Ebay Crappymeter is like trying to polish a turd.

Also speed. I haven't tried every DMM in the world but I've found Fluke to be amongst the fastest. There's nothing worse than checking a resistor and having to wait a couple of seconds while DMM makes it's mind up.

 

[Andrew Cowan]

Thanks for all the replies - fast readings (4 times per second) is something the Fluke 87v boasts about. It has a 6000 count display, so that's good for 5v readings.

My only remaining query is regarding a second hand meter. It is a lot cheaper for as-new meters - around £120 less. Is it worth paying the extra money for the lifetime warentee (not including abuse or LCD damage after 10 years)? From what I've heard, they are rugged enough not to need this. The other problem with buying a second hand meter is you don't know quite what has happened to it (ie calibration settings being touched). Would this put you off?

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[BeanieBots]

I'd never buy a second-hand device for measuring anything that was important to me.
The main reason for that is because I know what might have happened to it and why it is for sale.
I spent 25 years in the semiconductor equipment manufacture industry working on ion beam implanters. These use some serious voltages (up to 1MV) and much test equipment gets effectively "struck by lightning".
Oddly enough, much survives but has "stange" quirks afterwords. I have a Fluke 77 which was struck several times. Still works but now the accurcy is very dependant on humidity (probably due to internal tracking). Not something you would want to rely on, on a rainy day.

Fluke is certainly a trusty make and worth the money particularly if you want a device to last you a lifetime. My Fluke 79 certainly has. However, as several have pointed out, a 'sope might be more a more appropriate use of the money. It really depends on what you want to do. For anything that requires extreme precision I take it to work and get it measured with a Keithly.

 

[hippy]

I think one question is - do you actually need anything better than you have ?

I've not done electronic engineering so there may be some things where really good equipment is needed but I would also expect that to be available in the labs, and kept calibrated. For most things I would expect what you have to be perfectly good.

I've got by on pretty basic equipment for most of my life and one tends to find that when really good equipment is needed it's only rarely. Obviously there are people who use really good equipment on a regular basis but will an electronics course fall into that category ?

If I were spending serious money on a good bit of kit I wouldn't buy second hand, unless it were a bargain at beer money prices or had a history I felt I could trust.

You're in a bit of a quandry because you want the best but do not want to pay for the best so are thinking of skimping on data logging and maybe other things - But what happens if the first job you walk into shows that to be essential ? What happens if you find that a logic analyser would have been a better investment than scope or meter ?

It's the old problem of trying to second guess an unknown future and I'd probably go with what I had, which in your case looks perfectly good and better than anything I have, and see where things go.

 

[Dippy]

Firstly, don't buy second hand unless as hippy says above.

Secondly, why worry about it now?
I'm sure the Uni will provide test equipment.
And so will future employers.

It seems the bottom line is that you want a posh DMM for hobby and coursework.
Just go and buy the best you (and parents) can afford, then that's one job done .
I think you'll be happier with Fluke than mid-range Metrix and Tenma.
And then you can say Mine's Bigger than Yours too !!

Is CPC any good for prices? I've never seen major discounts on makes like Fluke and Tektronix. If parting with a big dob of money I'd be tempted to go to the bigger distributors for the security of the warranty. (Yes, I know it'll be a fiver more).

 

[Texy]

Fluke certainly appear to be the make prefered by professionals, in my experience (almost 30 years as a test engineer). I only use a cheap maplins job at home, but my work Fluke 87V comes home with me every night.
We buy them pre-calibrated from RS, but I think that will be over your budget. Note that the calibration is on top of the list price. What about the 87-III ? Not sure of the spec differences, but its £238 from RS.

Texy

 

[Andrew Cowan]

The 87V is the mark 5 model - the 87-III and 87 are the previous versions. The 87V has a slightly larger screen - I think that's about the only difference. I'll continue looking around.

Andrew

 

[MartinM57]

The new Fluke 87V has improved measurement functions, trouble-shooting features, resolution and accuracy to solve more problems on motor drives, in plant automation, power distribution and electro-mechanical equipment.
* Unique function for accurate voltage and frequency measurements on adjustable speed motor drives and other electrically noisy equipment
* Built-in thermometer conveniently allows you to take temperature readings without having to carry a separate instrument
* Optional magnetic hanger for easy set-up and viewing while freeing your hands for other tasks
* Large digit display with bright, two-level backlight makes the 80- Series V significantly easier to read than older models

I'd quite like one of those, but I certainly don't need one. It would get you bragging-rights in the University bar (if that's your thing - not that I recall ever discussing multimeters over many pints of 6X in the various Soton bars) but I really don't think you would get better marks overall or better individual project marks.

Given what you've got in your toolkit, I'd be looking at something like a Saleae logic analyser to complement what you've got.

On the other hand, it's only money, and if you can afford it, it's nice to have nice things

 

[hax]

For excellent video blog multimeter reviews go to www.eevblog.com and click on "all episodes". Then search for fluke.

David does this review work for free, so you know you can trust his opinion. Good site for other electronics info too.

 

[Andrew Cowan]

Watching Dave's multimeter reviews (especially his Multimeter Buying Guide episode) was what first made me think about getting a quality meter. Looking for a meter with all the features he recommends ends up with a Fluke 87 (among others).

Andrew

 

[MartinM57]

Dave and his "One-Hung-Low multimeters with printed on CAT II labels..." - classic

 

[Dippy]

I very much enjoyed wossizname's blog.
Good colourful descriptions

Makes me wonder if any retailers actually check the claims on the cheap chod DMMs?
I know some people will buy cheap at all costs , but it certainly makes you wonder about safety... (Some people need protecting from themselves too).

 

[BeanieBots]

Nicely put explanation of the pro's and con's vs price on meters.
The irony is that those that concentate on cost cutting are the ones most in need of a quality and safe meter

 

[Dave E]

Fluke meters

I'll agree that the Flukes are good meters. I have owned one (model 87) for 23 years now and still use it. I used the 87 daily for 12 years in an industrial environment and it never let me down. Since then I have aquired a couple more (87 III, 12B). I am now using a model 187. It has more of a display range, will measure 5 volts to 4 decimal places, and other features I like. It also has the ability to measure positive and negative pulses and give you the pulse frequency, duty cycle and pulse width. This gives you some scope features without a scope.

Which ever meter you get, it is also useful to have capacitance measurement.

Just my 2 cents.

Dave E

 

[fernando_g]

Fluke is one of those electronic companies which I really admire. Much like Hewlett-Packard used to be, before it became a paper-and-toner company.

Any Fluke meter you decide, will provide you with years of reliable use. And since a multimeter is one of those "key" instruments used wherever electrons are flying around, it is a worthwhile investment.

 

[papaof2]

I'm quite happy with a Fluke 77, which was handed to me for "evaluation in the real world" when it was first available locally - and the person who handed it to me never asked for its return ;-)

I also have a couple of the $3 Harbor Freight DMM's (which have been checked against the Fluke to determine "good enough" accuracy). The HF meters typically travel with me, as loss of, or damage to, a $3 meter is an annoyance instead of a financial hit.

John

 

[Dippy]

I think the whole poin of all this is 'confidence'.

Yes, of course, we can all find Ebay TinkyTonk 50p specials and , mugger me, they give roughly the same value as the Fluke.

But, if you were to unwrap your little treasures in isolation, which one would you trust?
An EJunk special or a Fluke?
I bought a cheapie t'other week. It takes 4 seconds to settle down to read a battery voltage. The cheap piece of carp is now in the bin. My sanity is worth more than a fiver.

And then there's the safety aspect mentioned a while ago...
Of course, safety goes out the window when saving a couple of quid don't it

 

[manuka]

Sigh- it's the old "horses for course" saga again- get SEVERAL meters! A quick work bench count here shows at least ½ dozen DMMs (including Asian Fluke clones) & the one actually reached for relates to the circumstance. As numerous electronic/electrical metering needs arise due to faulty connections or batteries,even a tiny Asian cheapy in your handy portable tool kit can save the day.

FWIW -in my lengthy experiences,tertiary level labs.will be mega equipped,BUT you may find confusing instruments that some boffin specified 5 years back when a rare funding surplus,inter faculty empire building war or a kick back sweetener was in effect. Yeah- more common than you may think. My first calculator (a mere ~US$1000 in todays money) did wonders in comparison with %@#$* $$$$($) clunky offerings that the department had installed. Best not get me started on Mettler balances being used for basic Physics!

As a key aspect of ones technical training relates to confidence with the tools, skill with your own instruments usually fosters all sorts of achievements that unfamiliar gear may not. My first plain VOM cost ~US$200 in todays money, & I recall using it every day for ~5 years to give unparalled circuitry insights. Back in that same Vietnam war era, I further recall a Pacific military exercise when a DIY Yagi antenna I rustled up gave far superior VHF comms than the issued gold plated whips.

It's worth mentioning that the first year of many EE courses usually is heavily mathematical, & hands on work annoyingly may be quite some time down the track. You could well change courses as the reality of a field sets in, & end up flogging off $$$ purchases for $$ - it frequently happens! A more versatile "instrument", such as a netbook, may make sounder sense.

Stan.

 

[Dippy]

Does that include "a tiny Asian cheapy" with fraudulently/illegally printed Voltage ratings that goes bang?

Stan, can you translate: I often see in Kiwi posts things like ' %@#$* $$$$($) ' ; what does it mean?

The bottom line is that Andrew is bursting to buy something expensive . We've all been there. Just go and get it Andrew.

 

[inglewoodpete]

' %@#$* $$$$($) ' usually means there is something wrong with your baud rate settings. We southerners are (usually) very articulate.

 

[manuka]

Does that include "a tiny Asian cheapy" with fraudulently/illegally printed Voltage ratings that goes bang?

Dippy: I for one only use an Asian cheapie on low voltage DC, & even have qualms on 12V automotive. The point is that being so small, handy & disposable one can justify having a few just for the endless cussed electrical issues that always arise away from the workbench - erratic connections/broken wires/flat batteries/blown fuses/shot filament bulbs/wire ID etc etc.

In your Blighty lingo (which,being of British stock,I have some modest experience with) the Kiwi %@#$* $$$$($) expression roughly translates to ££££££££££££(£££££) plus a 6 month wait for EU certification
Stan.

 

[Dippy]

I'm teasing
I too have cheapies kicking about for casual checks. Though I have done a rough ballpark check against something expensive.

I would never trust something unbranded in more extreme apps.
The trouble is that many people don't even think past their wallets.
They've saved a tenner but don't care about the potential hazards.

Ah, EU Certification and CE and all that jazz.
Yes, some fry-by-night CH manufs don't bother with that. They just make up a number and stamp CE into the moulding.
Let's face it, some numpty paying a quid for a 'whatever' will never check or care even if it caught fire.

 

[fernando_g]

After all the barrage, poor Andrew must be regretting shooting the first salvo.

I say, Andrew, go for it! Charge! Even if you decide later on a Fluke is not for you, it holds substantial resale value, unlike the ebay stuff!!

 

[Dippy]

No, he's not regretting it - he's managed to excite 4 pages of banter!

Go for it Andrew, get two.
But be aware they don't impress girls as much as other things.
I'll try it down the local pub tonight, they've got a new girlie behind the bar.
"Hello Darling, wanna see my Fluke?"
She'll probably think I've got worms.
Maybe I'll get Flukey!

 

[Andrew Cowan]

Not regretting it at all - any thread that has the potential for Dippy to make an idiot out of himself is worth it .

I'm on the watch for a bargain second hand fluke in good condition (none found yet), or a new one if none turn up in a few weeks. I'll keep you updated.

Andrew

 

[eclectic]

Profligacy Anonymous.

Andrew.

Two years ago, I bought a Fluke,
in a Farnell sale.

I've hardly used it,
but, that's not the point of buying an expensive toy.

Join the club.

e

My name is Eclectic, and I am a Profligate.

 

[InvaderZim]

I use a meter for home, work, and hobby, which means:
1) Sticking into mains to verify they're on
2) Checking the value of a resistor because I've forgotten the code more times than I can count, and can't make out the colors right anyway (Bad Beer Rots Our Young Guts But Vodka...erm...darn!)
3) Checking the value of a cap because they make no damned sense anyway
4) Checking continuity (just use the ohm meter half the time)
5) Check diode health (very rarely; mostly I'd just use a different diode since I have like 1000)
6) Check for 5V vs. 0V (or in between, if I suspect its toggling)
7) Measure current; nice to get down to mA but 0.01A is fine most of the time
8) I once had an application where checking Hz was handy. But I haven't done that in 2 years now.

That's about it. None of these tasks require accuracy. All but maybe 5 and 8 could be done with a typical cheapy meter. Plus as a bonus: they're typically really small, which can be as handy as anything, and you won't cry if your friend drops it in his fish tank. Just read the manual, and know that if you are reading a 0.13 Ohm resistor that the reading probably isn't terribly accurate.

I totally understand wanting a nice piece of equipment; I've been there soooo many times. And I hate to be a killjoy! But you might give it a few months and count the times that you really can't do what you need with a $30 meter, and in the meantime save up for something even geekier. A scope perhaps? Or you could get into some wireless stuff. Or build a robot. Or take up brewing! Or...you'll find something : )

Oh, and if you do get a Fluke, look it over well (it sounds like you are). I've used Flukes that I didn't care for, the way the features were laid out, or the ranges on the current meter, or the size, etc.