AXE029 QUESTION

4jaba6

New Member
For many years I have had problems downloading programs.
I would push down on the mini-stereo-socket and/or push hard on the AXE027 into the socket when downloading with mixed results.
I hated to change microcontrollers because if I finally got one board to download decently; it would all get sketchy again when i tried to download to a different board and socket. I even went so far as to use a bard-parker to shave off bottom of rubber on the 027 where plugged in to get a more secure fit.

It appears that the AXE029 will solve this problem.
My question:
The Datasheet directs "self assembly and some soldering".

The photo suggests the opposite.
It appears fully assembled!?!?

Anyone know?

Thanks,

John
 

4jaba6

New Member
My 029 was in kit form.

These days, I roll my own download cables.

View attachment 24216
For many years I have had problems downloading programs.
I would push down on the mini-stereo-socket and/or push hard on the AXE027 into the socket when downloading with mixed results.
I hated to change microcontrollers because if I finally got one board to download decently; it would all get sketchy again when i tried to download to a different board and socket. I even went so far as to use a bard-parker to shave off bottom of rubber on the 027 where plugged in to get a more secure fit.

It appears that the AXE029 will solve this problem.
My question:
The Datasheet directs "self assembly and some soldering".

The photo suggests the opposite.
It appears fully assembled!?!?

Anyone know?

Thanks,

John

It is very troubling that a company of this stature is not able to let one download programs to their microcontroller's without purchasing an extra part.
Even more unsettling is that one must do some soldering to get this part to work ( not sure this is the case...see my initial post ).
Also see "kfgl's" msg. He not rely on the company's hardware either ; he "roll's his own download cable's.
Still waiting for confirmation rather this item assembled or not.
 

kfjl

Member
Also see "kfgl's" msg. He not rely on the company's hardware either ; he "roll's his own download cable's.
There are a few reasons I make my own download cables. Unreliability of the AXE029/027 combination is ABSOLUTELY NOT one of them. It was designed with schoolkids in mind and is solid as a rock.

I never had any problems AT ALL programming my Picaxes with it.

Are you THAT BAD at soldering?
 

inglewoodpete

Senior Member
For many years I have had problems downloading programs.
I would push down on the mini-stereo-socket and/or push hard on the AXE027 into the socket when downloading with mixed results.
I hated to change microcontrollers because if I finally got one board to download decently; it would all get sketchy again when i tried to download to a different board and socket. I even went so far as to use a bard-parker to shave off bottom of rubber on the 027 where plugged in to get a more secure fit.

It appears that the AXE029 will solve this problem.
My question:
The Datasheet directs "self assembly and some soldering".

The photo suggests the opposite.
It appears fully assembled!?!?

Anyone know?

Thanks,

John
The stereo socket was designed to be soldered onto a printed circuit board. Not intended to be plugged into a bread board.

If you want to use a stereo socket on a bread board, you need to modify it. The photo shows what I did for breadboard use.
 

Attachments

4jaba6

New Member
There are a few reasons I make my own download cables. Unreliability of the AXE029/027 combination is ABSOLUTELY NOT one of them. It was designed with schoolkids in mind and is solid as a rock.

I never had any problems AT ALL programming my Picaxes with it.

Are you THAT BAD at soldering?
I won the U. S. Soldering championships in 1950 and again in 2013.
I lost to a British ( not from Wales ) chap in the 2020 International contest.
Yes, thanks... I just wish a "non-solderl" solution for the breadboard!
 

AllyCat

Senior Member
Hi,

The 3.5mm Stereo Jack (plug) is quite ubiquitous, so you should be able to find an alternative socket assembly. Perhaps cut off the end of a headphone "extension" cable. But the main problem is the solderless breadboard, which has deeply recessed contacts and probably won't accommodate a stranded or thin enamel-coated wire either, so those cores also may need to be "beefed up" (with solder / pins) ! And are crimped connections also verboten?

Cheers, Alan.
 

4jaba6

New Member
To All ( kfjl, thunderrace7, AllyCat and Inglewoodpete ),
Thank you for your input and any future input.
This morning, I went thru my old parts box and found a Picaxe Store order from Feb. '18 for two AXE029's.
Ironically, one came assembled and the other not!?!?
Therefore my original question is STILL not answered.
I shall attempt to use the assembled AXE029 today or tomorrow.
I also ordered two new 029's from Picaxe; hope they come assembled.
 

4jaba6

New Member
I have an assembled and soldered AXE029 as depicted in the Picaxe Store.
There appear to be 4 pins on underside of the assembled part:
Looking at part from the TOP with the 4 pins on north and socket for AXE027 on south, the leads are:
A . 0V far left
B. Serial Out 2 is 2nd from left
C. Serial In is 3rd
D. Serial Out 1 is last on the very right.

Am using a 20M2 and connections are as follows:
A. to the 20M2 Ground Rail
B. not connected
C. to pin 2.....20M2 serial in
D. to pin 19...20M2 serial out

When attempting to Download, keep getting msg. "Hardware NOT FOUND com3"
I tried different "Settings" diagnostics to no avail!?
(I even tried switching C. and D. )
There is a small "jumper" part which I have not used; am not sure if this needs to be used to make this work!?

Any suggestions?

TIA
 

AllyCat

Senior Member
Hi
There is a small "jumper" part which I have not used; am not sure if this needs to be used to make this work!?
Yes, it needs to be fitted to link the Serial Out from the USB adapter (middle pin) to whichever pin you've connected the SerOut (pin 19) to (i.e. B or D), so in your case presumably D. Also, ensure that COM3 is the port on which the adapter has been installed for your particular PC.

Cheers, Alan.
 

4jaba6

New Member
I am still not having any success getting the AXE029 to work "*" .
So today did a "workaround" to be able to use the 20M2 , stereo socket, download circuit and AXE027 cable.
Since the major problem in downloading to a breadboard has to do with stereo socket prongs not long enough, decided to remove the socket from breadboard. Attached 3 female leads to the socket and used male leads to plug into the download circuit on bread board.
This worked well but once had to use trick of disconnecting power, downloading and then quickly applying power to get to download.
Not happy with this as a long term solution.

" * " Tried several things to get AXE029 to work, but first some confusion:
JUMPER:
1. It is a little loose but I believe it shall work
2. AllyCat states that yes, it needs to be used and this makes sense. But the PDF ( Doc/Data sheet ) says it is to provide the correct pin layout
for inserting the 029 directly beside an 18 or 28/40 Chip. This would therefore make the jumper irrelevant for me because am using the 20 M2.
This Data Sheet says nothing about it being "mandatory" as it appears to be! (?).
Perhaps the 'Tech Writers" can correct this one way or the other.

DATA SHEET DEPICTIONS OF the 029 for "18" and "28/40":
My 029 appears to have same pinout as the "18".
HOWEVER...the depiction shows 2 resistors on the top but the pinouts are depicted as they are on the bottom.
Therefore these pinouts are reversed in the depiction from what they should be. I am using the pinouts shown on bottom of 029.
In other words, if the resistors are on top but the pinouts shown are not...they are on bottom and therefore in reverse order.
Another Data Sheet correction needed?

Have attempted several things to include using shown pinouts and reversing them, 2 different jumper positions and other things.
Have not yet tried serial in to serial out or serial out to serial in yet.
At this point, eyeballs are tired and spinning, so hopefully my observations make sense and are correct.

I not understand why I can not get this part to download and am currently out of ideas!

JB
 

AllyCat

Senior Member
Hi,
This worked well but once had to use trick of disconnecting power, downloading and then quickly applying power to get to download.
That Hardware Reset method can be necessary if the previously downloaded program has used some specific commands.
This would therefore make the jumper irrelevant for me because am using the 20 M2.
This Data Sheet says nothing about it being "mandatory" as it appears to be! (?).
That's not a reasonable assumption. The schematic diagram clearly shows that there is no direct path between the Serial (Programming) Output pin from the PICaxe and the AXE027, so the position of the jumper might be "optional", but the jumper is mandatory to whichever pin has been used to connect to the Serial Output.
HOWEVER...the depiction shows 2 resistors on the top but the pinouts are depicted as they are on the bottom.
I've never used the AXE029, but with the "long" pins assembled on its underside as shown in the photos, the connections look correct to me. With the AXE029 protruding on the left-hand side of the breadboard (PICaxe Leg 1 at the top), the lowest pin is 0v / Ground which corresponds to the Higher Leg number on the chip (leg numbers always increase Anti-clockwise when ICs are viewed from the top).

The pin sequence doesn't look particularly convenient for the other M2 chips, perhaps that's why its Datasheet doesn't actually mention 14 and 20 pin chips. Probably the best that can be done is to connect the 0v / GND pin to the (highest) corner Leg on the right-hand side of the PICaxe, with one link going across the top of the chip and down to Leg 2, and another linking the Serial Out Leg to Pin.

Cheers, Alan.
 
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kfjl

Member
If you were using an 18-pin picaxe, you could do this:

24235

By changing the jumper position, you can make the adapter's pins line up with those of a 28 or 40 pin picaxe.
You're using a 20-pin picaxe so you'll have to use jumper cables and connect them according to how you decide to place the jumper.
 

4jaba6

New Member
Hi,

That Hardware Reset method can be necessary if the previously downloaded program has used some specific commands.

That's not a reasonable assumption. The schematic diagram clearly shows that there is no direct path between the Serial (Programming) Output pin from the PICaxe and the AXE027, so the position of the jumper might be "optional", but the jumper is mandatory to whichever pin has been used to connect to the Serial Output.

I've never used the AXE029, but with the "long" pins assembled on its underside as shown in the photos, the connections look correct to me. With the AXE029 protruding on the left-hand side of the breadboard (PICaxe Leg 1 at the top), the lowest pin is 0v / Ground which corresponds to the Higher Leg number on the chip (leg numbers always increase Anti-clockwise when ICs are viewed from the top).

The pin sequence doesn't look particularly convenient for the other M2 chips, perhaps that's why its Datasheet doesn't actually mention 14 and 20 pin chips. Probably the best that can be done is to connect the 0v / GND pin to the (highest) corner Leg on the right-hand side of the PICaxe, with one link going across the top of the chip and down to Leg 2, and another linking the Serial Out Leg to Pin.

Cheers, Alan.

AllyCat,

I appreciate your as usual detailed and informative response.

Regarding the "jumper", I was only stating that there is NO text that says the jumper is mandatory.
It says "to provide correct pin layout for inserting the adapter directly beside....PICAXE chip."
This is misleading because it will lead one to believe the only purpose of jumper is to promote
a side by side relationship between AXE029 and a PICAXE chip. Consequently the jumper would
not be necessary if one does not need this 029 and chip relationship.
Perhaps the data sheet should be changed to correct this!

Your depiction of the 029 side by side with the "18" chip turned my light bulb on.
It sparked my realization as to correct pin designation on top of 029.
It has to be designated as shown, otherwise can not line up the 029 beside the "18" chip.
(I still do not understand why the pin designations on the underside are different from
the top side depiction when the topside depiction has to be correct ).

JB
 

westaust55

Moderator
John,

For many years I have had problems downloading programs.
I won the U. S. Soldering championships in 1950 and again in 2013.
Regarding the "jumper", I was only stating that there is NO text that says the jumper is mandatory.
It says "to provide correct pin layout for inserting the adapter directly beside....PICAXE chip."
This is misleading because it will lead one to believe the only purpose of jumper is to promote
You fail to also mention that the datasheet states:
“For 8 pin PICAXE chips either position may be used (breadboard wires are required between the adapter and the 8 pin chip).”

If you look at the bottom of the datasheet, the available copy (per my link at post 11, the datasheet was prepared on 5 June 2006.
At that time the M2 and X2 range of PICAXE chips did not exist.

Agreed not stated on the old-ish datasheet, however the 14 and 20 pi devices must be treated exactly as per the 8 pin devices.
Why would you think that nothing (i.e. no jumper) is required to use the AXE029 with the 20 pin chips ?

Looking also at the circuit diagram at the bottom of the datasheet it is clear to anyone who can understand a circuit diagram that without the jumper/link that the “SerialOut” connection is not available at the breadboard pins.

For me personally, reading that you are someone who has been soldering since at least 1950, and joined this forum in Dec 2015 I would expect that you can read a circuit diagram.[/QUOTE]
 

4jaba6

New Member
John,





You fail to also mention that the datasheet states:
“For 8 pin PICAXE chips either position may be used (breadboard wires are required between the adapter and the 8 pin chip).”

If you look at the bottom of the datasheet, the available copy (per my link at post 11, the datasheet was prepared on 5 June 2006.
At that time the M2 and X2 range of PICAXE chips did not exist.

Agreed not stated on the old-ish datasheet, however the 14 and 20 pi devices must be treated exactly as per the 8 pin devices.
Why would you think that nothing (i.e. no jumper) is required to use the AXE029 with the 20 pin chips ?

Looking also at the circuit diagram at the bottom of the datasheet it is clear to anyone who can understand a circuit diagram that without the jumper/link that the “SerialOut” connection is not available at the breadboard pins.

For me personally, reading that you are someone who has been soldering since at least 1950, and joined this forum in Dec 2015 I would expect that you can read a circuit diagram.
[/QUOTE]

westaust55,

Been to N/E/S Australia but unfortunately not to the West.

Appreciate your observations.
The 8 , M2 and X2 of no concern to me.
Am using the 20M2 and it not mentioned, however AllyCat's diagrams helped figure out how to use it.

I don't want to beat this dead horse anymore.
I am still unable to get the 029 to work; perhaps I have a bad part!?!? I have two more on order, so we shall see.
Not a huge issue for me other than wasted alot of time trying to get it to work. But that is really not a big deal because I got to use alot of good advice from helpful Forum members. Some of these posts helped with the variety of "Workarounds".
Example...Inglewoodpete's advice on soldering longer prongs on the Stereo Socket.
Regarding your comments about my soldering and circuit reading.....
Was responding to KFJL's comment "don't you like soldering ?".
Since you not recognize levity bordering on sarcasm as a response to a somewhat insulting question?
I "Splain it Lucy":
I was born in the early 1940's so no soldering awards in 1950 or 2013. Not learn to solder until many moons ago when in my 50's at start of being a robotic hobbyist. Don't care to solder if I don't have to but don't necessarily dislike it.

Look, yes do struggle occasionally to read circuits ( I have no formal technical training, so this forum is usually a God send )..
My comments about jumper's are related to text in this old and somewhat complicated datasheet.
Yes, the circuit clearly shows a jumper needed, so I missed that; was too focused on the printed word which did not specify the jumper mandatory---->
my mistake!

Most all have posted helpful comments.
Disappointed to read a few insulting statements along with a mostly helpful Forum!
There was nothing helpful in your message.
 

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
>> HOWEVER...the depiction shows 2 resistors on the top but the pinouts are depicted as they are on the bottom.

>> (I still do not understand why the pin designations on the underside are different from
the top side depiction when the topside depiction has to be correct ).

Please post a photo of your AXE029. We suspect from your comments that it may be soldered upside down (ie the PCB was the wrong way up when the parts were soldered onto it). This part has never been sold assembled, it has only ever been sold as a kit. Note the writing on the top and the programming pins hanging out the bottom (so the programming pin's solder joints are on the top, whilst the resistor's solder joints are on the bottom).

24239
 
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kfjl

Member
AllyCat's diagrams helped figure out how to use it.
I still haven't found those.

Regarding your comments about my soldering and circuit reading.....
Was responding to KFJL's comment "don't you like soldering ?".
Since you not recognize levity bordering on sarcasm as a response to a somewhat insulting question?
The question was: "Are you THAT BAD at soldering?".

Nothing insulting, just direct.

For you to make such a fuss about soldering a few bits and pieces I thought maybe you had some kind of handicap, in which case I would have posted a breadboarded circuit for a "roll your own" download cable.
 

4jaba6

New Member
I still haven't found those.



The question was:c

Nothing insulting, just direct.

For you to make such a fuss about soldering a few bits and pieces I thought maybe you had some kind of handicap, in which case I would have posted a breadboarded circuit for a "roll your own" download cable.
Look, maybe I ( or you? ) too sensitive about our text!?
But, if I respected another forum poster, II would never phrase a sincere question like
"Are you THAT BAD at soldering? ".
Besides, what if I had answered yes, or no???
What was your purpose in asking someone if they were that BAD at something?
No need to answer...this a dead horse.
I understand the tone in which you asked and you understand how I feel about it.
ps Never made a "fuss" about soldering!?!? ( continued insults ---->"fuss" !)
 

4jaba6

New Member
>> HOWEVER...the depiction shows 2 resistors on the top but the pinouts are depicted as they are on the bottom.

>> (I still do not understand why the pin designations on the underside are different from
the top side depiction when the topside depiction has to be correct ).

Please post a photo of your AXE029. We suspect from your comments that it may be soldered upside down (ie the PCB was the wrong way up when the parts were soldered onto it). This part has never been sold assembled, it has only ever been sold as a kit. Note the writing on the top and the programming pins hanging out the bottom (so the programming pin's solder joints are on the top, whilst the resistor's solder joints are on the bottom).

View attachment 24239

Yes, it appears to be upside down.
I purchased two AXE029's in Feb. 2018.
Since the purchase, have had my priorities wrong and other things have replaced hobby robotics.
A few weeks ago decided to attempt to end my struggles downloading and try to research methods on how to correct.
One great help was Inglewoodpete's reply about the stereo socket not meant for breadboard's because prongs are too short.
I have not yet soldered longer prongs as he suggested, but it is one of my "workarounds".
Back to the AKE029:
When I discovered the AXE029 was a good solution for breadboards, went back to my parts box and discovered the two I had ordered
two years ago. One was soldered and the other not! I have been mystified why this would be. Without thinking into it much, thot
maybe it came in kit form but also were selling assembled for some reason. Not much critical thinking, but way too preoccupied trying to get it to work ( tunnel vision ). After reading your msg., I believe that back in Feb. '18, I probably soldered one of the kits. I do not remember doing this, but that must be what happened. As you stated, it appears I soldered upside down!!!
I can now answer KFJL's question.
Shall attempt to solder the other 029 kit and resuscitate my soldering reputation.
Thanks for catching this mistake!.
 
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